Being Sued for Criticising Snake Oil

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It happens a good deal. I know that Craig has had more than one threatening letter. Large companies, or individuals with money can take people to court in the UK over what in any sane universe would be considered valid criticism.

One which caught my eye recently was the case in which Rodial, a cosmetics company, are selling a cream called Boob Job which claims to make your breasts 8.4% bigger. Yes really. Dr Dalia Nield told the Mail it was “highly unlikely” the cream would make your breasts bigger. She's being sued for that. You really could not make this story up!

Here is the full version

http://www.badscience.net/2010/11/science-is-about-embracing-your-knockers/#more-1848

And here is some information on the company.

http://furtherthoughtsfortheday.blogspot.com/2010/11/questions-for-rodial.html

They actually do sell snake oil! Seriously! Literally!

http://www.rodial.co.uk/product/skincare/glamoxy-snake-serum/256

Got to love the cliche.

Anyway. The point of my little rant is that there is a bill on libel reform coming up. Please go here

http://www.libelreform.org/

And sign the petition supporting it. It would be great to live in a country where you can't be sued for saying that vitamins don't cure HIV or that a cream won't make your boobs 8.4% bigger.

In this way we can all protect ourselves! The lawsuit you avoid may be your own. Or, much more likely, mine. So sign the petition already!

Thankyou. That is all.

Robert

 

Are you calling me flat-chested?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Uzj5l6rDg&feature=related

Thinking about it 8.4% of nothing is nothing, but if you look like Dolly to start with 8.4% is a lot.

 

I am tucking in my vest & writing a very strongly worded letter demanding a refund!!!

Pfft at those merchants of serpent juice creams!

Back to the inflatables ..............

PS.....

It will still cure my overbite right?

 

How did they measure the 8.4%, did the weigh them? Wey-hey and other Kenny Everett style jokes.:bash:

 

Read the article. Its hilarious. Apparently they would not say, but they have a 2page PDF full of interesting looking "sciency" stuff. Which reminded me a very great deal of the 2 page sciency bits which come with almost every dressings rep I've ever seen.

I liked the 0.4 . Not 8% mark you, 8.4%. Like our own beloved 3.5 degree wedge strip!

 

Do you think if you rub the cream on other appendages, it might make them 8.4% bigger too? If so, where would you apply generously?

 

It all depends on how long you rub on the cream! 8.4 percent is a conservative estimate.

 

Depends if it is "professionally applied!"


Nah. Would'nt want the balance problems!



As fun as this is, I trust you've all checked the petition!

 

Thanks for the heads up Robert. Yes, I've checked out the petition. Perhaps this is why the forum has become so important... and entertaining!
Here's an interesting paper from a while ago...
Greg

 

Rob,

I for one will not be signing your petition. And I'll tell you why. Because I purchased this product and applied it liberally to my genitals. I'm delighted with the results. My penis now measures 1.084 inches.

 

Lets be honest Ian, with the usual error in measurement, you are kidding yourself if you think there has been such an improvement. Confirmation bias damn you!

Robin

 

That's a good link! Thanks Greg.

Data on file is the phrase which keeps coming up. How often do we see that here. "Yes we have evidence, but it's secret evidence!"

I'm sure Mrs Ian was delighted with your study Ian, and I have every confidence in your scientific rigour ;-). 0.084 inches is Not to be sniggered at....

 

Is "sciency bits" a new addition to cockney rhyming slang for those that have had the cream applied!!?

Neil.

 

HA HA - on me plates, down the apples and over to the battleship for a nose bag

 

Hi Robert,

Of course the preparation works. I rubbed it on my penis and it has grown breasts. I think I'll still sue the snake

Actually, when you think about it, it is a ridiculous claim - have you ever seen a snake with a pair of 38 dds??

Back to my NHS work now.

Neil

 

I love this banter lol

 

On a topic closer to home...

A manufacturer of a particular type of insole (they are reported to being the “largest orthotic company” in the world) based in the USA, got in contact with a very large law firm in Sydney Australia because I referred to their product as "snake oil".

I am not exactly sure on how much I can say (due to possible legal issues) but this company went to some length to get their product disassociated with the term "snake oil". They had the legal firm intimidate me with numerous claims & asked for the particular page to be deleted. They did this on two occasions earlier this year. I provided reasons why I think the product should be classified as "snake oil" based on my understanding of the topic (i.e. biomechanics, orthotic therapy), the claims the company makes, as well as information based on firsthand experience with patients who have come to me with unresolved issues using these insoles (which I was able to personally analyse, assess & photograph). I also inquired with these patients on the nature of the assessment performed by the dispensers of these insoles. In response the company provided evidence based on research conducted from their own people/profession ( ). They also had the audacity to provide research on the effectiveness of orthotic therapy (as if I didn't know this) conducted by podiatry researchers on podiatry based orthotic techniques (which their product is not).

I didn't seek legal support but decided to carefully change the wording around (I sure wasn't going to delete the page). This first attempt of changing the wording wasn't satisfactory for the company thus I was informed by the law firm that I couldn't use certain words with other words. One of which was the word "foot" (an odd restriction considering I am a podiatrist) in association with (& this is where it gets tricky) other words (let’s say a word associated with “level"). Anyway, I dismembered the word associations & decided to add a lot more detail as well as pictures & photographs to put my intended point across. So, what started off with just a few lines of information ended with a few hundred words with numerous pictures & photographs... albeit with no clear word association to the company in question; who have nothing better to do with their time & money than to pick on some lone podiatrist in Australia.

Podiatry Arena did have a role to play in these events (thanks ). It was a particular thread referencing a particular type of proprioceptive type insole that sparked eventual controversy with the owner who then engaged in the thread. Let's say he didn't enjoy the experience on here (because he didn't answer the questions asked of him). He also didn't like his product referred to as "snake oil". This then inspired him to Google search deeper on the issue. Subsequently he came across my site which had already listed his product under "snake oil". We subsequently had an email exchange where I asked him similar questions as to what was asked on this forum. I was actually willing to remove his product from the list as long as he put in the effort to provide an explanation (regardless if legitimate or not). I did feel a little sympathetic towards the gentleman. He actually visited me in person a few years ago in the hope to get podiatrists on board in prescribing his product. He did 5 - 10min kinesiology testing & told me what I needed. I decided to buy the product & starter kit so I could have the evidence in my procession & test it for myself (we'll leave it at that). Anyway, our email exchange didn't go to his liking & he didn't even provide his evidence I asked for. However, he did tell me he would inform the other "snake oil" candidates... well, he must of... as I received the above mentioned legal notice about 3 weeks later.

On a different issue, but related. It seems appropriate for the above company to put out a CD (which they issue to all who go to their seminars) which bags out our profession & podiatry based orthotic practices with unintelligible claims, yet can’t handle the personal opinion of one who refers to their product as “snake oil” with logically outlined reasons.

 

Matthew,

I recall our previous conversation regarding Foot Levelers. There, I said it. I also recall calling them crap. No one has come after me yet, that may change very soon.

They're crap. Their science is crap. This is my opinion solely, sue me. I'll still call them crap.

 

Thanks David for expressing a mutual opinion on this issue. I wonder whether they would use similar tactics on yourself... being that you are a colleague; that meaning, from the same profession. Because of this, your views may add more weight... & not be seen as one profession against another (which it is not). My issue is just with the product & the marketing associated with it (which is thus the views of the company). 

All the best. 

 

Speaking from the stance of a highly frustrated patient of several podiatrists--and who has purchased various types of "snake oil" online - - I can say that peer review and sanction may be the only means of removing various products from the shelves. I've never purchased Foot Levelers, however, I may have, had I not been educated by podiatrtists on this forum. I won't buy them. To those who have educated me - - thank you.

 

Gentlemen,

Here is your defense. It is right their on Wikipedia!

"Snake oil is a traditional Chinese medicine made from the Chinese Water Snake (Enhydris chinensis), which is used to treat joint pain. However, the most common usage of the phrase is as a derogatory term for quack medicine. The expression is also applied metaphorically to any product with exaggerated marketing but questionable and/or unverifiable quality or benefit."
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil

So one can only assume you were talking about the ability of snake oil to treat joint pain, correct?

 

Matthew,

Expressing an opinion is defensible (especially an informed or educated one), making a false or unsupported claim that damages another's livelihood is not. I was not aware of this particular company aggressively pursuing its detractors, mainly because I highly doubt that there are many within the profession. They have effectively marketed their insole, created by two of their own, to a profession that doesn't focus on the subject in their didactic studies. You won't find many chiropractors who dispense orthoses in line with the podiatric, orthotist and pedorthic fields.

The lack of training and understanding has I feel made them susceptible to the unsupported claims of the company's paid consultants and their marketing. It is pervasive in the field to say the least. What's the phrase "If a man doesn't stand for something, he will likely fall for anything"? This may change to some small degree and soon, keep your eyes open. Hint, hint.

Regards,

 

Good point.