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Is a Sub 2 hour Marathon Possible?

Discussion in 'Break Room' started by Craig Payne, Sep 30, 2013.

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  1. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Active Member

    Aloha,

    Why settle for sub2hr when we should be shooting for sub 1:50 or a 10% improvement.
    Why set the goal so low?

    Jeff the patent at attorney speaks with some first hand knowledge and makes some great points.
    I repeat this Nike patent should not have been issued IMHO because mechanically it is just using heel and toe leaf springs, something we have been using in prosthetics for a long long time. They have not invented anything new.

    "Technically, Nike do not actually state in the patent application what technical advantage is actually achieved by the spring plate (which from a patent attorney's perspective is a pretty important omission), but nonetheless based upon the comments in the Background section and the general terminology used throughout the patent specification it is fairly clear that the purpose of the spring element is to "improve locomotion efficiency."
    "What is striking about Nike's patent application is that Nike make no attempt to disguise the real purpose of the carbon fibre insert. Nike could have, for example, used completely different terminology and referred instead to the spring plate as being a "cushioning element". Nike could have said that the purpose of the cushioning element was to distribute energy involved in the impact of a running shoe with a hard surface more evenly as a function of time thereby reducing stress upon an athlete's foot and reducing the risk of injury. No mention might have been made at all in the patent application to any potential performance enhancement effects."

    Carbon fiber will break these records an as they did the 40 yard dash at the recent NFL combine.
    "They weigh 6.9 ounces and have a full carbon plate as part of the shoe. Unfortunately, they’re exclusive for the combine, so you won’t be able to buy the Vapor 4.2s yourself."
    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/03/joh...ash-record-breaking-adidas-island-nike-cleats

    All Aboard the Faster Train!

    A hui hou,
    Steve

    Disclaimer I am the author and own the international patents that superseeds Nike's simple leaf spring shoe patent.
    US Pat# 8,353,968
    We have tested it for the US Department of Defense for SBIR A11-109 "Advanced Composite Insoles for the Reduction of Stress Fractures." US DoD and AMRMC

    Levers Do Work
    Leaf Springs Just Spring
    :)
     
  2. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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  3. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Active Member

    Aloha,

    Perhaps Tucker is right foam would make a great "restrictor plate" for the field of athletics.

    We may not want our armature athletes running too fast...

    Here is NASCAR's solution for keeping race cars from going too fast.
    Perhaps instead of foam restrictors we could also use steel plate restrictors in the shoes of our athletes?

    A hui hou,
    Steve

    Making Room for Vrooom!


    [​IMG]
     

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  4. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Active Member

    Tucker Plate?
     
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    Here is the Runners World spread on the Nike shoe:
     

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  7. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Active Member

    Aloha,
    Before we villainize carbon fiber we should understand that there are many thermoplastics that offer high modulus of elasticity such as nylon and Polyoxymethylene (POM), sold in homopolymer. There are a variety of commercially available POM copolymers under several trade names such as: Celcon, Hostaform, Kepital, Lucel, Schulaform, Tecaform, Ultraform Delrin, so carbon fiber acetal is that resin. Now many of these plastics can be reinforced with short chopped carbon fibers which is not the same as the thermoset resins that are used with long strand carbon fibers weaved into fabric form.
    So before we go all off kilter and start burning carbon fiber shoes and chasing them out of town with pitch forks we should understand that enhanced shoes (and orthotics) can be made from a large variety of materials that are currently available.

    A hui hou,
    Steve



    :)
     
  8. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Active Member

    Aloha,
    According to CNN, Nike is making a 4% energy saving claim by increasing shoe stiffness at the metatarsal phalangeal joints.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/17/health/breaking-the-2-hour-marathon/index.html

    I think that is reasonable but also the limit of which they can achieve with simple plating in foam shoes.
    But to get to a 1:52 marathon they will need to do radically more.

    What are your thoughts?

    I would urge everyone to re-read Chapter 7 Work and Energy in the "Biomechanics of Sports Shoes" by Benno M. Nigg Phd.

    A hui hou,
    Steve

    :)
     
  9. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Active Member

    Aloha,
    It is good to see that the shoe companies are finally (17 years) taking heed of some of the good research at our Universities.

    Dr. Nigg and Stefanyshyn published these results about increasing MPJ shoe stiffness on pages 87-88 of "Energy Aspects Associated with Sports Shoes"
    sportverletzung sportschaden 2000sept:14(3):82-9

    This is a good short read worth reading if you want to keep up with this faster paced emerging science.

    A hui hou,
    Steve

    :)
     
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  13. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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    Nike's attempt is going down tomorrow.
    They live streaming it free on YouTube.
    Start time is 5.45AM Saturday 6th Italy time; that is 11.45PM ET (Friday 5th)
     
  14. been lost of chat about it, seems many are saying 59.59 1st half is the only way to go trying to bank a little time should see explosions 2nd half
     
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  16. attempt is still underway and we can conclude to the question

    No

    pretty amazing attempt, but this time round it failed too much BS not enough science seems to be the current voice
     
  17. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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    Awesome job by the pacers!
    But the day was not the day.
    Still absolutely extraordinary.
    2:00:22
     
  18. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    I don't believe in the way it is being done/attempted... but I certainly appreciate the talent & effort of Eliud Kipchoge... in running this fast over the marathon. The majority of people couldn't run just 1 mile (or half a mile) at 4:35-36 pace... let alone run 26 of them back to back.

    It now appears a human will run under 2 hours pretty soon... albeit, under controlled/crafted conditions.

    Runner's World write up on it...
    So Close! Kipchoge Runs a 2:00:25 in the Breaking2 Attempt (http://www.runnersworld.com/2-hour-marathon/so-close-kipchoge-runs-a-20025-in-the-breaking2-attempt?utm_campaign=Runner’s World&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=888812674)

    Here is some video footage of the attempt...



    I must say, Eliud Kipchoge does look an old 32 year old.
     
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  22. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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    Just caught a snippet that Nike running shoe sales down 12% in the first quarter of 2017 .... lets see if Breaking2 as a marketing stunt really worked.
     
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