Where now for UK Podiatry?

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I understand that the Society is recommending a change of title for Podiatric Surgeons to "Podiatrist in Foot Surgery" following recent pressure from the RCS and Dept of Health - ahead of this weekend's EGM in London. Where does this apparent capitulation leave the UK podiatry profession now and what assurances have been gained from Karen Middleton and her Department to protect the practice of existing clinicians in podiatric surgery in the NHS?

 

Can you give the source for this info Mark ?

If it`s true and carried, there will be a lot of dead bodies around. As a couple of Society Podiatric Surgeons recently said to me, 'It`ll be over our dead bodies'.

 

The dream is over; "they're selling hippy wigs in Woolworths, man"; bring out your dead...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1wcDiOuo6Q

 

Are they? I have not received any recommendation from the Society to change my title. I know that there is discussion regarding use of title and the possibility of changing it to 'Consultant Podiatrist in Foot and Ankle Surgery', but I am not aware of any body such as the Society making recommendations in any direction.

I am unaware of any threat to my NHS or private practice regardless of the name I choose to use. If anybody with closer political ties knows better, it would be great to hear it. What is there to gain or lose by change of title? Would it make much difference to my day?

 

Hello Bob

Maybe events in the next few weeks will enighten. From what you write, do I take it you would be happy to drop the title "surgeon" as per the demands of the RCS and DoH in exchange for your existing priviledges?

Mark

 

Bob

Maybe the Pod Surgeons in the Society are not being consulted !

And yes, It would certainly change your day after a while, the thin end of the wedge.

 

Hello Mark,
No. I might consider changing my title if I (and my corner of our profession) was offered a better future. Until I know all the facts about what I/ we can gain by considering anything I will not change a thing. Equally, I would consider this against what I/ we could lose.

Rosherville - what do we really lose by changing title? What do we gain by not? What are the risks and benefits of either option? I'm keen to know the facts before I make a firm, educated decision.

Thanks guys,
Bob

 

Bob

Surely the question is, what do you lose by being coerced to change your title so as to satisfy another group's self interest.

Pretty obvious I would have thought, loss of self determination.

What do you gain ? Knowing your place and who to defer to !

Regards

 

Hi Rosherville,
In real terms how would my life change if I changed my title? What would I gain by choosing to change my title and what would I lose? Pride is nice and all that, but what could we gain or lose by choosing to keep the title? I am not trying to be difficult, I am just trying to make myself aware of the facts before I make my choice. I have said on here before that 'podiatric surgeon' is in my opinion the most succinct descriptor for my job that I am aware of. If my profession is considering a change of title, we better have a reasonable alternative and plenty to gain by choosing to take it or i will vote against it.
Thanks,
Bob

 

Bob

It's a matter of self respect, if that matters to you. You believe that Podiatric Surgeon is the best title, then that's what you should have.

'If my profession is considering a change'. I doubt that the Podiatric Surgeons are considering a change; the Podiatrists/non surgeons maybe, on your behalf !

Regards

Shepherds may change but sheep remain sheep

 

Hello Bob

I spoke to the public relations officer at the BDA yesterday and she confirmed that their memberships are not being polled to consider dropping the title "Doctor" or "Surgeon" even though they too do not take the medical route to practice. Nor are they under any pressure from the RCS or DoH to do the same. Why do you think the podiatry profession is being singled out in this regard?

Kindest
Mark

 

Just as an aside and as a background to this, we have a colleague who has been through the mill in recent months which has resulted in a loss of surgical privileges at a private hospital where he has worked successfully for several years. The reason? An orchestrated campaign by one of his orthopaedic colleagues who has influenced weak management into believing the hypocure procedure was unproven and unsafe. The hospital withdrew operative rights demanding a comprehensive audit and approval from NICE and have suspended said colleague indefinitely. Strangely enough the hypocure procedure is being carried out at other hospitals who fly the same flag - by some of their orthopaedic surgeons.

At one point I advocated joint co-operation with the RCS and applauded the joint program with the Scottish RCS - but that has come to nought and I see no merit whatsoever in co-operating with an institution whose members behave so reprehensively with members of my profession without good cause other than to protect their own narrow interests. But you may take a different view, Bob - after all, you are at the sharp end....

 

Clearly this is the 'thin end of the wedge' I mentioned earlier; change of title being another stage.

It`s not for us 'Dodos' to expect the younger generation to adopt our aspirations, which during the process of working towards resulted in many battles. However, unless they are prepared to take on these unworthy actions they will lose what we have handed on.

I hope my previous prediction, that 'Podiatric Surgery as we know it will be gone in 10 years, is unfounded but.....!

 

For clarity chaps, I have not advocated a change in title. I am merely trying to keep an open mind until I am aware of the facts before I cast my vote. The BDA is not a like for like comparison for many reasons. It was not that long ago that I recall the then Dean of Faculty announcing that the title 'podiatric surgeon' was the way forward for us all. Many of us were Consultant Podiatrists before we were Consultant Podiatric Surgeons. Changing my title did not change my day/ week/ year then, so I would like to know how it might if I change it back?

Thanks,
Bob

 

From Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, 1600:

JULIET:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

I guess it depends on whether, or not, they stop you performing surgery in their hospitals... I guess if you're cheaper they won't.

How vulgar of me, it's obviously about quality not cost- right?

Out of interest, who gives the title "consultant"? What's to stop a new graduate calling themselves a "consultant podiatrist of shirmopodizing"?

 

Bob

Surely a Consultant Podiatrist and Consultant Podiatric Surgeon are different jobs !

Choosing to change title and being 'forced' to change title are again different.

What makes you think your opinion will be sought ?

To survive you've got to step out of your comfort zone. Tough aint it .....

 

Surely "consultant" is a title that anyone can give themselves? So why not just "podiatrist"? Bob's right, the job title doesn't matter, it's what you do with it that counts. Boys and their ego's...

 

Simon

'surely Consultant is a title anyone can give themselves'

Not in my world. It's an NHS title given to specific posts where a Consultant committee sits at the job interview !

 

Yes, but your world is obviously not the same as everyone else's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consultant

The reality is this: I could call myself a "consultant podiatrist" tomorrow, yet thankfully my ego doesn't yet require this.


And I guess this is the moot point "in your world" you are a "consultant", but in the lay-publics mind a consultant at a hospital is someone who has a medical degree and has undertaken training to become a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons. I'm guessing- you haven't.

If I choose to start calling myself a consultant podiatric surgeon tomorrow- who can stop me? No-one is the answer you are looking for.

 

Hi Rosherville,
An AHP Consultant Podiatrist and a Consultant Podiatric Surgeon/ Consultant Podiatrist in Foot and Ankle Surgery are indeed different jobs. The surgery lot obviously do surgery and are trained and will be regulated as such. I'd like to know if there is any threat to my existence if I choose to use either title. The title 'Consultant' is not protected and neither is 'surgeon' - Simon's right. Use of either is not a problem. The 'beef' the medics are citing is patient confusion regarding medical practitioners and other issues that are related but are likely to steer this thread off topic. I have said before that title is a red herring and we all know it. What i'd like to know is what do I stand to gain or lose by choosing either to keep it the same or change my title?

Thanks,
Bob

 

Simon

'your world is not the same as everyone else's'

Wrong, it's the same as all those that gained NHS Consultant posts.

Tell us Simon, how long have you had the need to make obtuse comments, or maybe you are naturally obtuse !

It's a pity that I have no wish to continue in a serious debate after you enter, sadly you do nothing for our profession.

 

Bob

You havn't taken my point.

You claim that Podiatric Surgeon is your title of choice, why would you 'choose' to change it ?

Regards

 

Hi Simon,
Being a Consultant does not mean you are a fellow of the RCS. There are many types of Consultant in the NHS these days - Consultant Nurses, etc...
My ego does not necessarily require this title, but my NHS Trust does and that is why they employ me to do what I do. The private hospital also requires it as well, so I am not going to argue with them about it :drinks

 

But not the same world as those that haven't gained NHS consultant posts? You're a chiropodist the same as the rest of us. Tell me that I cannot call myself "consultant" and why? For the record, when did you loose sight of where you came from and what you are? And when did you become a nameless sh!t stirrer upon internet forums? I have had the need to make comment whenever I see ignorance and particularly when I see someone attempting to place themselves upon a pedestal all of my life, and I have always had the where with all to put forward my own name, unlike you and your ilk. Goodbye John Mason, AKA Rosherville

And what is it precisely that you have added to our profession other than discord? Nice work fella.

 

Hello,
If I or my profession had a reasonable amount to gain from changing my title to something I am happy with, I would consider my options in a more serious manner.
Otherwise, my day will go on as normal (which it will no matter what I choose to call myself). My patients will still call me the same thing regardless.
Thanks,
Bob

 

Bob, can I call myself a consultant? Yes or no? What's in a title? Moreover, what's in public perception of a title- that's the key here isn't it? What do the public think a consultant at a hospital is? Whether they are a consultant of oral surgery or a consultant of nursing, the public presume Dr- not your fault, it's a public awareness campaign that went missing.

I really don't care what you guys choose to call yourselves, as you said a name doesn't change what you do for a living, yet it seems others do care. You can call yourselves Susan or even John Mason for all I care.

 

Bob

The consultant issue was introduced by you, the thread was actually concerning 'Podiatric Surgeon'.

My question to you was: You claim that Podiatric Surgeon is your title of choice, why would you 'choose' to change it ?

Regards

 

Hi Rosherville,
As before, regardless of the consultant side issue, I would only consider a change of title if I and my profession stand to gain from it. When my title changed from Consultant Podiatrist to Consultant Podiatric Surgeon I neither gained nor lost. To do it again requires a small amount of effort, so I naturally need a bit of motivation as I am a busy person.

Nobody has answered my question yet - what do I get? Whoa hooo, what do I get?

Thanks,
Bob

 

The Buzzcocks- obviously.

But nobody is answering my question either: can anyone call themselves a "consultant of podiatry" or "consultant of podiatric surgery" (define surgery)?

 

Hi Simon,
You can call yourself Consultant Susan if you like? I doubt the NHS will employ you as a Consultant Susan though. They may have to invite some external Consultant Sharon's and Tracey's to sit on your interview panel to ratify the post first, which I am sure could be time consuming.

Jokes aside, it is an NHS title. Do you work in the NHS? I guess you could call yourself a consultant if you work privately, I am not too familiar with UK law on this, but I do not believe the title Consultant is protected.

 

I work privately and just want to deceive the general public, I believe that if I consult (and I do) I can use the title consultant. Are you a real Doctor? I already got the title Dr. and I reckon I can really pull the wool over they're eyes with the title consultant I am joking, obviously. Or am I... K. It's a joke, right.

 

But Simon - you ARE a 'real' doctor. You're the one with a PhD. At least you earned it unlike the honorary title medics adopt! :drinks

 

Bob

That's fair comment. The issue originally presented suggested that external self interest pressures to drop the 'surgeon' title were at work; certainly without anything in exchange.

What I am enquiring is will the surgical profession resist in the interest of self determination or will it come up with weasel words to try to justify a change but really to avoid confrontation.

The answer, I believe, will indicate the chance of the profession having a future !

Regards

 

Yep, but if you go bandying it about people will think you are a medic, the next thing you know someone has a stroke on a plane and your getting called up to relieve them. Not good when you're tucking into a G&T on a flight to Benidorm. I guess it's a similar problem for "consultants". My father in law was a consultant industrial electrician, he wasn't particularly good with the paddles, but had a pop when the fella in front of him went into cardiac arrest over the atlantic. But that's the moot point rearing its ugly head again... what's in a title?

 

Bob

I am no longer a member of the Society so I have not been issued with proxy voting papers as you no doubt have, but I understand that the SCP is in a difficult position as Karen Middleton has let it be known if the title is not changed then independent prescribing will be revoked. How accurate that is I cannot say and it is unlikely that anyone from the Society will enlighten mere mortals on Podiatry Arena. To date I have had no reply from the current Chair regarding strategy, so I doubt if a politically sensitive issue like this will be debated openly - even though she could use a sobriquet, if she wishes.

Personally I would tell Middleton to go fcuk herself - and the rest of the mandarins at the Department, but then, like Simon, I am not dependent on them for my crusty bread and besides I think most are cretins anyway. If I am not wrong, the term "surgeon" has been used by podiatrists who perform invasive procedures for more than six years and that being the case the title cannot be taken away involuntarily because of the Human Rights Act. Unless, of course the Society's Council are prepared to bend over and grip their ankles tightly again. But I don't envy their position if the above scenario is accurate - and it certainly seems plausible enough given some of the characters at Richmond House.

 

My first boss, now sadly retired, was the best diabetic / high risk podiatrist I've every come across. He referred to himself as a Chiropodist and often joked about just being a toenail cutter. He commanded immense respect at the hospital and in the broader community, especially amoung the medics. Everyone knew what he was and what he could do and what he was, in spite of his protestations that he just cut nails and rubbed cream into feet (two things he was more than happy to do).

I've also known people who have claimed the title of "consultant" who I would not trust to sit the right way on the toilet.

Respect comes from what you are and what you do, not the titles you bestow on yourself.

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?

 

Hi Mark,
That is not a rumour that I am familiar with and I would have serious doubts that the whole podiatry profession could be denied independent prescribing based on some external people's dislike for a small part of that profession's title - especially given the DoH's recent documents on physio and podiatrist independent prescribing and the forthcoming legislation. I suspect whoever told you that is an avid Daily mail reader.

Of course, I'll await confirmation of possibilities such as that before
I make an informed choice on what to call myself and I'm still on the look out for what I stand to gain from swaying either way.

Thanks,
Bob

 

With the SCP's unwillingness to change the title maybe Chiropodist in foot surgery would appease the society's hierachy more?

Nick

 

Does this mean the title of Surgical Chiropodist cannot be used.

 

'I know my place'