Self education expenses and tax changes

Yes David,
I was just sugesting that folks do the sums on the complete cost of each course. Pointing out that where you live and the proposed course location were the keys.

If you live in Sydney then travel costs this year are almost zero in the grand scheme of things.

However if you do not live in a capital city then travel costs are much more significant for an Australian course.
The APMA national early bird rate is $295 US
I did not mention SOIPs 13 as it had already been covered by others

Once again do the sums for own situation, everyone will get a different answer.
Obviously if you live in southeast QLD there could be only one answer for 2013, however if you live in Cairns then Hawaii could be a much better value in every way.

 

Honestly, the situation is a joke. The tax cap has as much sense as a barefoot minimalist runner..

 

As per Craig's post, with a survey of 4200 doctors and 98% advising of the severe impact of the tax cap upon their ability to pursue their choice of self-education, it is surely time to agree Paul. The tax cap will have a devastating impact upon the self education options for Podiatrists and many other professionals.

 

But the AMA is a union what would you expect from them? Bad numbers? Sheesh! You won't get me agreeing on this Surfboy - education is education, the value is in the education not the tax saving but the education. The APMA Conf in Hawaii might be absolute rubbish....in which case the educational value is zero (caveat I know nothing of the APMA conference im am simply making a point).

 

Paul,

I agree with you that education is education, and most practitioners will find ways of attending the seminars, conferences etc. that they deem appropriate to their practice. But for anyone spending more than $2000 on self education per year (and from what I read, this also includes those educating others, ie; the people who submit papers for presentation at conferences) it is an effective tax increase.

 

Poor AMA members....not only do they rank as the single highest earning profession in the country (3115 surgeons raked in taxable income of nearly $1.1 billion between them in 2010-11) but now like Surfboy points out they can't claim more than $2000 a year on education expenses! Travesty!

"The tax data suggests that studying medicine still pays in Australia - specialist doctors (and dentists) accounted for six of the 10 best-paid occupations in 2010-11"

Read more and feel sorry for them: http://www.smh.com.au/data-point/ro...d-incisions-20130503-2iyi0.html#ixzz2SHgzmzFX

 

Paul, you are still failing to recognise that it is not just medical practitioners who will be affected by these tax changes.

The reality is, that whilst many professional people are impacted, these changes will also severely impact upon lower paid people wishing to upskill their qualifications. For instance, Paul, the cost of a person completing a Certificate III in Business Administration is $2390.00 Without access to a tax offset, such individuals may be unable to afford their choice of course to upskill.

(http://www.opencolleges.edu.au/cour...on/certificate-iii-in-business-administration)

And from the Australian Financial Review, Paul:

Grant Thornton tax partner Paul Banister said students were not living luxuriously to rack up costs above $2000, particularly when doing “sandwich” masters courses that involve intensive weeks in another city. The increased costs would deter some, he added. “Like it or lump it, tax is a driver; it does affect people’s behaviour”.

MIDDLE CLASS WELFARE ‘TARGETED’
Those claiming more than $2000 on average were on incomes of $70,000 and up.

Institute of Chartered Accountants tax counsel Paul Stacey said the measure was clearly targeting middle class welfare and to some extent ignored the requirement for many professionals or others to maintain education.

“There is a clear tension between the savings and possible outcomes in terms of productivity because if Australia is to continue to improve its productivity growth it needs to support a culture of continuous learning,” Mr Stacey said.

 

I'm pretty sure the last time I looked this was a Podiatry forum? You posted and took your argument into the medical realm quoting the AMA and how the "hard done by" its members will be. Now you are extending your reach outside Podiatry and Medicine and championing every profession in the world? How noble.

We are not going to agree on this and blatantly the government at this point obviously isn't going to agree with you either.

What about the other forms of assistance available to people? Grants? Rural funding? Open University? HECS? PELS? Scholarships?

If you are championing everyone in the world with this tax reform why does it always come down to how "you lose benefits" because of it?

Facts are facts:

1) The tax doesn't even exist yet and may not exist after the next Federal election
2) No one has show there are not other ways to offset this tax or claim education in other other ways
3) The medical profession are the top earners in this country
4) Education is not about money or the perceived benefits associated with reducing ones taxable income by undertaking it
5) If this tax is enforced it will not stop AHPRA requiring "X" hours of CPD per year and hence will not stop you having to do it....

Maybe the government thinks there are too many people going on "pseudo-education jaunts" in Hawaii to so called conferences which take the hard earned dollar away from this country and lose them money? Maybe instead of whinging about it you should ask the government "why" they are changing it? I am sure there is a reason!

 

Physiotherapists criticise cap on self-education

 

APodC have blogged on it:
Self education cap is short sighted

 

Great work Craig, many thanks.

Colleagues, this is a clear call for us to take action as a united front. It is pleasing to see that our professional bodies, including the APODC, have validated our concerns and are taking action because of the significant impact this will have.

As rational, well-informed Practitioners who have the insight to see the actual impact of this government decision, I urge you to write to the Ministry and Shadow Ministries of Health to express your concerns.


From the Australasian Podiatry Council (APODC) : Members will no doubt have heard about the Federal government’s intention to introduce a $2000 per annum cap on self-education expenses. We believe that this policy is short sighted and will impact terribly on Podiatrists.

We believe that health professions must have a united front in arguing against this proposal as it currently stands. We have raised the issue within Allied Health Professions Australia (AHPA) and have agreed through AHPA to raise the matter with the Treasurer and the Health Minister. While we do not object to the concept of a cap, any cap must not restrict health professionals from developing the skills they need to provide Australians with safe and effective health care.

So what does this really mean? It is likely that this decision will impact significantly on employees both in the public and private sector and will also impact ongoing skills development for the profession broadly.


Meanwhile, the Australian Physiotherapy Association (APA) President Marcus Dripps said the government’s figures quoted $900 on average is claimed for educational expenses - an “extraordinarily low” figure for the health industry. The Australian Physiotherapy Association says the move, which will affect nurses and allied health professionals from July next year, will act as a disincentive for physiotherapists to develop their expertise or pursue specialised education and could also impact on the quality of care for Australian patients.

 

Aside from the direct cost of attending any CPD course, as Trevor pointed out, there is the as yet unmentioned cost of not attending your clinic.

Lost income stream to you, yet the clinic cost, for example rent & insurance, etc continue.

The client that came to your door and found it was closed and went else where.

The extra hours you have to put in to try and catch up to those missed clients.

l would suggest it cost a few thousand more than mentioned here.

Have any of you ever put some of those figures together?

 

This is exactly right David. Great points.

What you have raised are all additional expenses, notwithstanding the actual fees involved in attending education.

This is why it is critical that self education fees remain tax deductible, otherwise it indeed becomes unaffordable to pursue education, given the associated costs of running a clinic!.

Congratulations to the APODC for their efforts.

 

It was in the budget:

http://www.pharmacynews.com.au/news/latest-news/cpd-expenses-capped-in-budget

 

this may not be as bigger deal as first thought, though it is a question the AMA have been trying to have clarified, but if the budget states "work related self-education expenses", professional seminars etc. are not included in the cap.

from ATO Website D4

From ATO Website D5

 

Also as Stephen correctly pointed out at the start of this thread it would seem this is directly related to being an "employee". Storm in a tea cup......

 

Thanks Stephen, but it is not as clear cut as what you suggest. The Government seems to have an all-encompassing definition of what constitutes "work related self education expenses" Watch out for this banana peel folks:

From the Treasury Press Release 13 April 2013:

The Government will better target work related self-education expense deductions as part of a package of reforms to make a down-payment on the National Plan for School Improvement.

The Government values the investments people make in their own skills and recognises the benefits of a tax deduction for work related self-education expenses. However, under current arrangements these deductions are unlimited and provide an opportunity for people to enjoy significant private benefits at taxpayers' expense.

Education expenses include formal qualifications and associated tuition fees, textbooks, stationery and travel expenses and also conferences, seminars and self-organised study tours.

And from the Budget overnight:

The Government will better target work‑related self‑education expense deductions through an annual $2,000 cap on these expenses from 1 July 2014. This measure is estimated to provide savings to the Budget of $514.3 million over the forward estimates period.

Taxpayers will be able to claim a tax deduction of up to $2,000 of education expenses in an income year. Deductible education expenses are costs incurred in undertaking a course of study or other education activity, such as conferences and workshops, and include tuition fees, registration fees, student amenity fees, textbooks, professional and trade journals, travel and accommodation expenses, computer expenses and stationery, where these expenses are incurred in the production of the taxpayer's current assessable income. The potential for uncapped claims for a wide range of expenses provides an opportunity for some people to enjoy significant private benefits at taxpayers' expense.

So folks, "courses" "conferences", "seminars" and "workshops" are all stated above to be included in the $2000 cap, and do not appear classified as some exempt category or "other work related expense".

 

Surfboy does it only relate to your work as an employee though? You have avoided that question throughout this entire thread and I believe Stephen made a very fair point early on when he mentioned it.

"The potential for uncapped claims for a wide range of expenses provides an opportunity for some people to enjoy significant private benefits at taxpayers' expense."

This sort of fits your Hawaii conference needs Surfboy - i.e. you want a holiday in Hawaii you pay for it not the tax payer of Australia. Unfair??? Really?

 

I am not sure what it is you are trying to say here Paul? You don't seem to be able to understand technical taxation points. A true 'employee' in the public hospital system, for instance, may actually be able to salary package some educational activities and this would thus be classed as a fringe benefit. Such an option however certainly does not apply to an ABN holder or contractor.

I operate a private practice and am not an employee.

Can you please elaborate.

 

Exactly my point - how does it relate if you are not an employee as stated in the budget document - why does it specify "employee".

 

Eh? If you are not an 'employee' of a public benevolent institution (e.g. NSW Health), you are unable to salary package and access any associated fringe benefit tax exemption.

Therefore the full weight of the $2000 cap for educational activities applies to you if you are not an employee (e.g. contractor Podiatrist / ABN holder).

 

Not completely true. Many people in non benevolent institutions salary package (mainly super, but also cars, on site child care, parking, mobile phones etc.)

see the maxxia website for more details. (They are one of the biggest providers of salary packaging across industries) and list the current FBT exempt items.

Education expenses etc. are an FBT exempt item, so, at present, can be salary packaged by any one whose employer allows it.

ABN holders may have to modify their business models, and even consider incorporating. This would then allow the education expenses of employees to be a business related deduction.

 

Thanks Stephen.

But isn't that ridiculous though.. having to incorporate or otherwise change your entire business structure to try and pay yourself a wage so that you can salary package, simply so that you can try and claim essential self-education items.

This in itself would be costly and would no doubt require additional annual reporting. It may also have other taxation implications which one would need to consider.

I know who I will be voting for come September.

 

I don't think that will make any difference

"Tony Abbott set to back massive ALP spending cuts in Budget"

 

I think you misinterpret the governments reasoning for doing this - to save money! Abbot wpould be a fool to oppose any action the current government take in "saving money" because he can simply reap the rewards from it whilst blaming them for it! POLITICAL WINNING!

Fact is - they are doing it for a reason - to many "dodgy" claims I would assume from people laying on beaches in foreign countries whilst at an educational event! Its going to net them 56 million....thats a big cost saving for the government in a very small area.

 

CPD tax to limit earning potential

 

Plibersek offers olive branch on CPD

Read full article | Comment

 

Told you so Surfboy - looks like the government is onto your overseas Hawaii junkets!!!! Build a bunker and hide - the tax man is coming!

 

"Hawaii junkets"? I think that many of your peers would disagree with your description of attendance at the national conference of the American Podiatric Medical Association (APMA) as a "junket".

The reality is, is that a $2000 tax cap will inevitably limit the choice of professional education available to many practitioners. Like it or not Bowles, tax influences people's behaviour. It will simply become too expensive to attend an overseas conference for many practitioners and/or students.

Whilst I do not object to the concept of a cap, one has to be realistic, Bowles. A $5000 cap would make a lot more sense.

Your earlier posts harp on about the government's intent to "save money" with respect to this agenda. But what you fail to recognise is that the ongoing professional education of practitioners across a broad range of professions, should not be targeted to make up for a government deficit.

 

You think? Is that my Australian peers or US ones? Because I'm pretty sure that the day or so of surgical workshops, along with all the hours discussing Obamacare and the healthcare funding issues in the United States have pretty much little or no relevance to your day to day grind as an Australian Podiatrist.

In fact, even the Australian Government would agree with my views that you would gain more from attending your own national conference in terms of CPD AND you would keep the dollars in the country AND it would cost you less....saving them money and keeping you closer to the $2000 thresh-hold - WIN WIN!

...and I am sure if you were in Hawaii during those "boring lectures that weren't relevant to you" the beach or shopping wouldn't be tempting would it

So ask yourself the question again - if I recall the statements posted on previous pages:

TREVOR: "The National in Hawaii next year will be a cheaper option for a lot of people than an OZ conference, but it all depends where you live and the conference locations. You just have to do the sums and factor everything in. (include wardrobe shopping)

To which SURFBOY responded: "Terrific post Trevor. Very well set out. And my wife will love the wardrobe factor hahahha!!!"


So what is it education or clothes shopping for the wife??? Not a junkett? Who isn't being serious now?

Show me the statistics that back up your claim? Reality really is that the government is cracking down on the medical junkets - see Craigs post above from the Federal Health Minister - they make it crystal clear. Its going to save the government TENS OF MILLIONS if not more and at this point all it is aimed at is stopping the unnecessary beach dwelling Podiatrist from enjoying a few well deserved tax deductible days in the sun.....

Reality really is - it won't stop one serious person undertaking any serious education they want to or need to.

Of course the AMA, the APodC, and every other bureaucrat and behemoth from trade unions will complain - that's what their job is!!! Doesn't mean I have to agree with it and doesn't mean they are right.

Reality really is - like it or not, you are complaining about something you are about to lose. Its self servicing at its best. I understand your complaint, heck I even empathize with it - I just don't agree with your point of view on education.

I don't believe we are personally acquainted enough for you to refer to me as anything but "Paul". Especially in a derogatory manner such as that which highlights your obvious immaturity in dealing with this situation. I unfortunately don't have the luxury of referring to you via your SURNAME only because you hide behind anonymity on public forums.

Well its obviously going to influence yours! The rest of the country will simply get on with the education they want to or have to.

That's laughable. Let me get this straight - you are whinging like a 5yo who has had his GI Joe toy taken off him about the fact that high quality medical education is going to be out of reach due to a $2000 cap but you think $5000 should do it? Newsflash Surfboy - high quality medical education costs money! One of your gripes was about "specialists" not able to train because of this cap and you showed concern that we would suffer a speciality drop because of this. But now you are saying $5000 should get YOU by? C'mon mate, enough of the self indulgence, ask any Surgical Registrar with the ACPS what that cost them and how much they claimed on tax! Point is you gotta earn it to claim it and trust me when your pouring hundreds of thousands into training you aint earning the big bucks!

Reality is $5000 still wouldn't get you to Hawaii and you would still be complaining.

You are right - we should target the pensioners......and the sick, disabled, homeless. In fact we should continue to mine and strip staff from high risk foot units around Australia because that would save us a few grand here or there and lets face it the fact that someone with diabetes loses a leg every 20 seconds worldwide isn't a good enough reason to keep Podiatrists around, especially when it could save us some hard earned cash.

Where should we make up the deficit if not from "junkets" taken by Medical professionals? Would your wife really be that upset you couldn't take her shopping in Hawaii as a tax deduction? I would think it might be one of the many logical places to start!

As stated above from the Federal Health Minister, they are not intending to de-mineralize the value of CPD or specialist training, they are going after the people who take their wives to Hawaii to enjoy some great shopping whilst going to a conference which lets face it, has little relevance to them or their day to day job.

That Surfboy, is the reality!

 

Paul,
We know some concepts are hard for you to grasp.
If you want to go to the APod conference in Sydney and do not live in Sydney the cost of hotels and airfares, meals etc plus the conference registration costs are more than $2000.
If you go to the American Podiatric Medical Association's National and don't live in Sydney you can do it for less than the Australian national.
You will learn much more, as the speakers are allocated much more time to cover their topic.

The APMA National has multi streams and it covers all interests, including those of podiatry assistants and practice managers.
Some podiatrists have their partner as practice manager meaning that they can also take part.
So Paul you don't have to go to sessions that have no relevance to you.

There are several hundreds of exhibitors with all sorts of new devices on show. Some of these can make the podiatrists life a little easier and provide for a better patient outcome. They are things that you will never see in OZ.

Also you will find all the equipment suppliers have doctors and or engineers with great product knowledge on their stands. Not just a salesperson that read the manual the day before. This means that you can then make a fully informed purchase decision.

A waste of time, no, I do not think so Paul.

Just good value and a great experience. Every OZ podiatrist should make the effort to attend at least one APMA National.

 

I know I am not the smartest tool in the shed (thanks for pointing it out - again coming from someone hiding behind the veil of anonymity on an internet forums its easy to do) but I am pretty sure my post above re-enforces the self centered junket style nature that you and surfboy are referencing. Even with its overly sarcastic undertones and sardonic accentuation I still thought my message was pretty clear.

Costs of events was also never in question - I believe you are talking out of your ass when you suggest an international conference in Hawaii is cheaper than a conference in a major Australian city. What and when was the last international conference you attended?

Using FLIGHT CENTER:

From Griffith to Sydney (return Qantas) : $400.40
Hotel Ibis Darling Harbour (3 nights): $432
Conference Fee:$1260

TOTAL: $2092

With Webjet:
Griffit to Hawaii (return Qantas): $400.40 to Sydney then $1572 Sydney to Honalulu
Hotel Outrigger: $593 (Ocean view room is $949)
Conference Fee: $650

TOTAL: $3215

Now I have clearly left some serious costs off this list but have tried to keep it basic and similar. As you can see your argument is totally off the hinge. Even the basic premise of going to an event overseas is nearly $1300 more than an event in a major capital from a rural area. Another reason to take any of your posts with a grain of salt.

Regardless as I have CLEARLY stated this isnt about what you get for your dollar. It never was - I don't even know why you are posting those statements here they add nothing to the argument.

The tax is in place to stop medical junkets.

It will not stop one medical person from doing any education they want to or need to do.

Ive attended more than 10 international conferences in the US over the last 5 yrs - i'm well aware of how good they are. Im sure the APMA National is a fine conference, with quality education and speakers - that was never in question and was never my point. So lets stop the straw man arguments and personal attacks and stick to the facts not the scare tactics!

Shall we keep arguing or agree to disagree and move on to far more important topics like can I buy you a beer at the National Podiatry Conference in Sydney?

 

Ok, so only my second post, so I am really not trying to tick anyone off here.
When I first read this thread I was a little bit ticked off at the cap. I then proceeded to think about how much I have spent each year since I left uni (12 years ago). I have rarely spent over 2G, and I have a grad cert part time among that. I must also admit that it's actually only in the last 5 or 6 years, that I have claimed this stuff on tax. A good accountant, I found out, sorts that stuff out for you. Beats using tax pack.
Good CPD comes down to the individual and how they want to progress themselves. And I am gonna say, if there is an event that costs me 4G to get to, and I will get good professional benefits, then I will go. The next year I would like to think that my CPD will be quality improving my practice and implementing what I have learnt. That's how I have done things lately.
The only thing that will annoy me about a cap is if I go over the 2G limit attending worthless CPD that I get little out of, then I will be ticked off.
I would love to have beer at the conference Paul, but my missus is due pretty much on the day, so no conference diabetes or oz, no biomechanics summer school, no lions tour, no state of origin. Guess it will be worth it.
Cheers
Derek Condon

 

Derek congrats mate!! Enjoy that time its pretty special. I will have a few beers for you...

You are exactly right - the carry on in this thread is from left of field and in no way will it effect anyone doing CPD or professional updates/courses. It will not change my plans to attend at least 3 events in the US next year and from discussion with colleagues it won't change theirs either. The sooner we all take the attitude that education is beneficial, helpful, worth the effort and will assist you to further your own skill set professionally the better we will all be for it. Looking at education simply as a "cost burden" or "tax saving" serves no purpose.

Now I am sure that Trevor or Surfboy will post some rhetoric about this further saying "Paul just doesnt get it" - before they do that, let me reassure them....I do get it, I really really do. I hear your opinions, I value them i just dont agree with them and I believe most poeple will be like Derek in the wider Podiatric and Medical Community.

 

AMA labels CPD tax plans "dumb"

 

What would you expect them to say as a trade union? "AMA Labels Tax Reforms adequate?"

RACS doesn't recognize Podiatric Surgery or any conference where a Podiatrist was on organizing or scientific committee either - doesn't mean they are right!

 

The AMA president Dr Steve Hambleton told the body's national conference in Sydney on Friday that the government was cloaking its "misguided policy" with "class-warfare language of first-class airfares, five-star hotels and overseas ski trips"... They have angered a lot of people across the professions," he declared.

The AMA is, quite frankly, completely correct here. This is not the reality of quality medical education for most doctors or other professionals.

The reality is, whether you like it or not Mr Bowles, is that ongoing professional education should be permitted as a tax deduction. It is an essential work related expense, and given that many Podiatrists work on their own in solo practices, I continue to argue that it would be financially difficult for them to attend an overseas education activity without them being able to class the activity as a work related expense.

Your statement "it will not stop one medical person from doing any education they want to or need to do" is incorrect. You continue to ignore the reality of this situation for your fellow Podiatry collleagues. Your rhetoric goes on and on, expecting the local Podiatrist down the road to simply pull the big bucks out of his pocket to fund his ongoing educational interests. You really do need to sit down and think about this properly, Paul.

 

Seems like you fit right into that category with you and Trevors rhetoric about going to a conference in Hawaii for the shopping!!!!

It doesn't matter what the AMA want. The only fact here is the government wants some of its 56 million back.....The AMA is a trade union surfboy - they represent a populous of people (albeit a small populous of total people at that!) - they will go to lengths for the concepts of their members own interests and self preservation - sound familiar?

Really - Paul is fine, enough of the name calling Surfboy. I'm not saying it shouldn't be - the government is, and looking at the stats they have a compelling argument. I can recite tales (as I am sure many here can) of colleagues who have gone to tropical islands for conferences and never attended anything except the Gala Ball at the end and the swim up bar in the main complex swimming pool! You saying that is ok? I am sure as hell saying it isn't. I am also not saying it is the majority of the profession!

Take some advice, go and get an accountant who will give you the low down on what is and what is not tax deductible. As a "solo" Podiatrist in private practice I would hope you already get some good tax advice from a professional! Reality is (and it is indeed a reality at this point):

1) You haven't shown me one person who will be worse off with this tax.
2) Education isn't about saving money, its about spending it to improve yourself - hopefully in an attempt to increase your skillset, professional capacity and earnings.
3) You and several others in this thread have had your comments shown above to be incorrect on several occasions - including stating it would be cheaper to go to Hawaii as a rural Podiatrist than the National Podiatry Conference in a major capital.
4) Others have posted about their spending and professional education and shown that your statements have been not applicable to them.
4) By your own self admission the "shopping" or perks are a major part of traveling to an OS conference.

You can't have your cake and eat it to.

So you keep telling me - as if by reminding me all the time you think it will change my mind. I am allowed to disagree with you and vice versa. Maybe a quiet beer and a chat may persuade me - but lets face it, that wont happen because with this tax change you won't be at any of the events will you? Shame!

I definitely do not - I just think you underestimate us average Podiatrists mate. Most of us don't go to work to sell something, most of us don't look at each patient as dollar signs - most of us practice Podiatric Medicine and most of us work 12+ hr days in busy clinics preventing amputations in high risk patients, taking care of geriatric patients who require attention to detail and dispensing invaluable service and advice to patients who appreciate it. Most of us are more than happy to pay for continuing education of exceptional quality and most of us understand that an attitude change to professional education in this country is long overdue!

As a mark of respect for you Surfboy and to show you how much I genuinely care about your ongoing high quality education needs how about I try and swing you a ticket to the APodC conference next week? Or alternatively I will pay for your access to a full 12 months worth of events on PORTAL Education. That way if you have difficulty getting away from the clinic or family PORTAL can deliver the high quality stuff directly to you - no financial loss! How about both?

Neither are a tax dedication for me so it doesn't bother me in the slightest - I just want you to experience the benefits of high quality education and how it can improve your day to day clinical practice.

Only one catch - a photo of you and me having a beer together at the APodC Conference discussing this very topic - to be posted here in this thread? Oh and you buy the beer!

Game?

 

I don't get it.
If total cost of event is 2500, including everything. I have to pay 2500, before the event, cap or no cap. I still have to fork out 2500. That is the point where I decide if I can or can't proceed with this event. Any tax benefits come down the track when I think to chase my accountant up. For me personally, any spent over the cap of 2000 just ain't enough to drop me far enough down the tax bracket to make a dent in my return, or for me to care. These are just my thoughts. And I do consider myself to be a podiatrist down the road. I can appreciate others position on this, and that it may affect them, and that's cool.
Cheers for your wishes Paul, getting to the pointy end very quickly now.

 

Neither does Surfboy.

Correct.

Yup!

Aint we all!

Enjoy it - amazing time of your life! So amazing I did it three times! Now I shall pay dearly by going bald and slowly becoming demented with 4 females in the house...I know my place in the pecking order - no Friday night football for me!

At least you will sneak in for the $5000 baby bonus!!! That should annoy Surfboy a little more....