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adidas: BOOST; New midsole technology

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Craig Payne, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
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    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    There has been a bit of a buzz over the last 24 about this.

    Here is a teaser video from Adidas:



    Peter Larsen blogged about it. There was this forum thread at Runners World. Another blog commented:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  2. Adidas is making unfair claims that it invented BOOST technology.....the evidence from video archives clearly shows that Fred McMurray invented this technology in 1961....originally known as FLUBBER.....:rolleyes:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  3. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    So, what is ADIDAS doing here. In this sneak preview BOOST gets incorporated in a 'minimalist' come racing flat style shoe. Wait, isn't shock absorbing footwear out of favor, at the moment?

    The bouncing ball is cute, but I am not sure what information is conveyed about the properties of the material. Returning energy to the foot, if that should be possible, is it desirable, or instead perhaps contribute to pathology? How does this material know where and when to return the energy?

    Wait, perhaps I am over-thinking.... could it be this is just a marketing exercise to sell shoes, by way of damage limitation to an industry with profit margins at risk. That any material would claim to "change running forever" is a lofty one indeed.

    From the web: adidas Running has just released this teaser of its upcoming adidas BOOST technology. Proclaiming that “this will change running forever,” adidas’s newest cushioning technology is composed of thermoplastic beads that are fused together, forming the midsole of the shoe. Promising unrivaled energy return – Runners World found it topped 800 other tested shoes for energy return after impact – the shoe looks set to usher in a new era of performance running shoes. Check out the teaser to see the technology in action and stay tuned for further information.

    p.s. anyone speak Spanish!?
     
  4. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    7
    Adidas have a global embargo on more info on this until Feb 14.
     
  5. Linchpin5

    Linchpin5 Active Member

    Looks like Adidas is trying to perfect the proprioception attenuator to me. Why not just invent a pill that will make the soles of the feet numb?
     
  6. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    7
    :welcome:
    Given that there are no proprioceptive sensors on the bottom of the foot, care to explain how that shoe would actually affect proprioception?
     
  7. Linchpin5

    Linchpin5 Active Member

    This is a joke right?
     
  8. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
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    Nope. How many proprioceptive sensors do you think there on the bottom of the foot?
     
  9. Linchpin5

    Linchpin5 Active Member

    Although there are no proprioceptive sensors per se in the actual sole of the foot the foot is loaded with proprioceptive sensors in its muscles, tendons and joints. In bipedal and monopedal functions they are activated by the weight of the superincumbent body compressing the arches of the foot against a reaction force (usually from ground). This loads the joints of the foot as well as the tendons and muscles. Where are the load points of the foot? In the sole primarily under (plantar) aspect of the calcaneus and heads of the 5 metatarsals. The propricoceptive flow should ideally be linear. But in most footwear it is anything but because the quarter of the footwear emanating from the shoe sole (no propricoceptive sensors here) wraps up and over the dorsum and about the hindfoot where it introduces foreign forces into the proprioceptive sensors of the joints thus contaminating proprioceptive data.
     
  10. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    7
    That is not proprioception; that the exteroceptive pathway.

    So if a shoe does interfere with that, what is actually wrong with that?

    Just because a someone say its does, does not mean it does. There is no doubt that something soft under the foot does initiate impact moderating behavior but no one has ever shown or demonstrated that there is actually anything wrong with that. All I have seen is propaganda and rhetoric with pseudoscience thrown in claiming that it does (and they usually cite some references to make their claims look legit, but if you look at the references they did actually not show that at all).
     
  11. Linchpin5

    Linchpin5 Active Member

    A whole lot of things are wrong with that. I have done the research but haven't published it.....yet. But is is coming.
     
  12. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    7
    Why not tell us what is actually wrong with the gait changes initiated by impact moderating behavior?

    Is your data prospective study that shows they get more injuries?

    Perhaps you could explain why the Hoka One Ones are getting so popular with runners if this is such a problem?
     
  13. Linchpin:

    Are you a nudist...because if you ever wear clothes then you are introducing "foreign forces into the proprioceptive sensors of the joints thus contaminating proprioceptive data."

    How do you cope with all that contaminated proprioceptive data....if you do wear clothes? Must be tough.:rolleyes:
     
  14. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    Well I'm convinced...
     
  15. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    Don't be ridiculous Kevin- What about all the contaminated data that the men folk would have with their todgers flapping around unencumbered...?
     
  16. Craig:

    What's a todger?
     
  17. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    I will let you google that one...
     
  18. toomoon

    toomoon Well-Known Member

    Kirby... I can tell you I needed a good belly laugh and you provided it this morning.. thank you my friend!
     
  19. toomoon

    toomoon Well-Known Member

    oh my Lord.. it gets better and better.. i am crying.. please stop!!
     
  20. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Anonymous poster on a forum making outlandish claims....CHECK

    Joined Podiatry Arena Feb 2013...CHECK

    Total of 4 forum posts...CHECK

    No thanks from anyone for any of their 4 contributions....CHECK

    Whats not to believe Craig you cynical human being you! ;)
     
  21. I came up with "a baseball team from Los Angeles, California" from google....did I type it in correctly? The Los Angeles Todgers?;)

    I guess that's better than what we call a bum bag here in the States....:eek:
     
  22. toomoon

    toomoon Well-Known Member

    clearly you have spent too much time in Australia and now truly understand the difference and social etiquette between using the words "fanny pack" (socially UN acceptable) vs "bumbag".. ( acceptable)
     
  23. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    If you can find an 'LA Todgers' outfit I will send you the money for it...
     
  24. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Well-Known Member

    Aloha,

    I do not know what is more interesting in this thread discussing ball sacks or "styrofoam" midsoles in shoes.

    What is the modulus of elastisity of of this new foam?
    What is the puncture resistance in Newtons?
    Does it suffer from material degredation like other foams?

    Does it return energy at the right time and place of gait ???

    Does it stay in landfills for less than 20,000 years?

    How will it react with tuned tracks?

    Has it completed any Department of Defense testing yet?

    A Hui Hou,
    Steve
     
  25. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Well-Known Member

  26. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

  27. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Adidas have released a new video on this:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  28. After viewing this video........gotta have sum o' dem shoes on my feet when I go into hyperdrive to attack the Death Star and Darth Vader.....where's my light saber?!:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  29. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Oh no! But this is terrrrrrible news. Adidas, don't you know this might encourage heel strike. EVERYBODY knows that's very, very bad for feet, don't they?

    Minimalist, minimalist, barefoot - that's the key to injury free running.

    I can vouch for that: after rupturing my gastroc, last week, evading traffic in Brooklyn ( I believe I was midfoot striking), I got a PACESETTER II, Robocop boot. That monster forces me to heel strike - and then some.

    Oh wait...my story is riddled with inconsistency.

    Ah well :boohoo:
     
  30. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Why would anyone want to make their shoes bounce higher than their home?

    Just asking .....
     
  31. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Well-Known Member

    Aloha,

    So adidas believe that cellular EVA is going to change footwear forever.

    After all that hype all they claim is 3x more temperature resistance than standard EVA foam.

    What is the modulus of elastisity of of this new foam?
    What is the puncture resistance in Newtons?
    Does it suffer from material degredation like other foams?

    Does it return energy at the right time and place of gait ???

    Does it stay in landfills for less than 20,000 years?

    How will it react with tuned tracks?

    Has it completed any Department of Defense testing yet?

    If i throw a pair of Boosts on the ground will they bounce higher than the superball shoes from Stride Rite?
    When will they (shoe companies) learn that the correct timing of energy return is paramount?

    The spring orthotic device would not burn during our horizontal and vertical flamibility testing for the US Department of Defense. I do not think that can be said for Boost or EVA...

    Please see and understand our posted research results and videos under the MAREN tab at www.kingetics.com.

    A Hui Hou,
    Steve
     
  32. Steve:

    You are so predictable. Every chance you get, you are trying to plug your product, aren't you? Do you realize how annoying your continuous attempts to sell your product are here on Podiatry Arena? It seems not.

    Why not give it a rest, Steve? We are all very tired of your continuous salesmanship of your product here on Podiatry Arena.

    Why not let the product speak for itself? We would all be much more impressed with that approach and you wouldn't look so much like a used-car salesman.
     
  33. David Wedemeyer

    David Wedemeyer Well-Known Member

    Amen Kevin.

    Steve is a compare and contrast of a $100+ retail shoe appropriate versus your DOD bid entree that starts at $1200+? Do you really believe your post is even relevant; who is going to buy your boots when they're looking for a running shoe? :confused:

    .
     
  34. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Well-Known Member

    Mahalo Kevin,

    Your concern for me and my reputation is appriciated.

    But NO one on podiatry arena has offered any support or offered any scientific reason why these are not the fastest lightest safest shoes ever built.

    Please, as a fellow scientist offer us some real feedback on the mechanics of the spring orthotic device and not the cute oblique critiques of my speling errors and sales pitches for better shoe science.

    I expected so much more from you and the leaders on this web site.

    You are in charge of the teaching of our future podiatrist and we need you to start teaching this in your classes, but this will never happen if you do not read and understand the materials and science we have proposed and patented.

    A good Ash Wednesday to you.

    Aloha Bra,
    Steve

    Dr. Steven King
    Voting Member American Society of Testing Materials F13 and F13.30 Committees
    Chief Prototester Kingetics LLC
     
  35. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Well-Known Member

    Aloha David,

    Perhaps you do not believe you feet are worth the protection.

    I do believe that our soldiers' and workers' feet are worth the expense and effort.

    Why else would i keep at this while you make fun of us and our honest effort to protect our loved ones.

    Boo on you.


    Mahalo,
    Steve
     
  36. Steve:

    I believe you have things mixed up.

    It is not up to me to tell you why your product isn't the "fastest, lightest or the safest". Rather, it is up to you, as a person who has a financial interest in the product, to provide all of us with some peer-reviewed literature which shows that your shoes are "the fastest, lightest or safest shoes ever built". In other words, the burden is on you, not me, to show us the scientific research evidence that supports your rather unbelievable claims about your products.

    When you have that research evidence, done by an independent researcher, not sponsored by you or your company, then I, and likely the others here on Podiatry Arena, will take notice.

    I won't hold my breath.
     
  37. David Wedemeyer

    David Wedemeyer Well-Known Member

    Steve,

    I don't think that I was being unnecessarily inhospitable towards you, I'm simply questioning your motive for posting a compare and contrast of two very dissimilar products. One is a retail shoe and yours you claim is a DOD bid contract item to reduce punctures and injury, correct?

    How many soldiers get shot in the foot? How many soldiers step on an IED or mine and still have a foot to protect? I'm not being cruel, I just do not understand the rationale for your project.

    BTW Steve, the day our military begins paying $1200+ for combat boots is the day I will have forever lost all faith in congress.

    coo coo ca chu
     
  38. Charlotte Darbyshire

    Charlotte Darbyshire Active Member

    Just out of interest does any body else think the sole of these shoes looks like a cutting from a take out coffee cup. I suppose it is one way to recycle all the packaging material that gets thrown away to land fill.
     
  39. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Well-Known Member

    Aloha Kevin,

    We realize the burden of proof is ours to bear and it has been a heavy burden when no one will read our research results that we have offered as proof for the validity of our technology. We sent to our government/Dept. of Defense the best science and research that thier $99,999.00 could buy.

    As for a peir reviewed article with human subject testing with an attached IRB-- that has yet to be funded. Would you like to help sponsor it? We are going to have a Kickstater crowdfunding fundraiser.

    Your burden, if you so wish, is make comment on the new mechanics that has been publised by the US patent office and has been supported by our Amercian Podiatric Medical Society and sponsored by our US Department of Defense.

    This device reduces shear and pressure at the metatarsal heads, therefore assisting diabeties ulcer reduction. Which we have mathematically proved in our stated research documents.

    Mahalo,
    Steve
     
  40. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    7
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