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Affordable Video Set up for Gait Analysis

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by cambspodman, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. cambspodman

    cambspodman Member

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.

    I'm looking to set up a vieo gait observation system. I have a treamill and I am looking to buy a camera and find video playback software for a pc.

    At a sports conferance last year one of the speakers suggested a Casio Exilim FH20 camera and some free software which I can;t rember the name of.

    Does anyone have any suggestions?

    Many thanks
  2. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    I have Templo Basic from MAR Systems. If you already have a camera with a firewire port and a compatible laptop, then you only need the software. I don't know how much it cost - approx £1200.

    Your best bet is to speak to Jonathan hedges at MAR systems - I have no financial link with his company - and he will give you a fairly good idea of the various systems and their strengths/weaknesses. Any dealings I have had with him, he has been quite frank about the limitations of his systems and he is a knowledgeable bloke when it comes to image capture and storage, regardless of the system. He also contributes on this forum but he is unlikely to promote his own products.

    The system I use is a 1 camera system and gives good usability and is fairly instinctive. It has limitations but as time has gone on, I have started to use the system in a different way as I'm sure many people using gait software have. I think having a 2 camera system is the next step I take for matching up things that I see in the coronal plane to events in the sagittal plane.

    Hope this helps

  3. wend0164

    wend0164 Member

    Hi Robin,

    My bio-mech knowledge is not too hot, i know this is not related, but can you recommend any good coarses.

    Really would like to start with the basics again, very little covered at uni.
    Have been on a coarse but was not really helpful,in that the orthotics they use are not easy to accomodate in shoes, very bulky.

    Would like to improve my knowledge and skills in this area.
  4. Griff

    Griff Moderator

  5. Depends what you intend to do with it. If all you want to do is slow-mo, you don't need anything specialist and there is lots of free software out there. If you want to do kinematic analysis, you'll need a 3D-system with multiple camera's. I've used dartfish and quintic in the past. These days, in a clinical environment, I use i-movie- which comes free with my apple- you can't measure angles from a single camera system, and how is it going to influence your prescription anyway? If all you want to do is slow down and freeze frame the action something like this is more than adequate (and unless you're engaged in research, why would you need to do more?. If you want to measure joint angular displacement and velocities, you're going to need a 3d system. What do you intend to do with the data?
  6. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    I agree with Simon, if its just for slowing footage down/patient education then get a camcorder for under a couple of hundred quid and download some free software. Just one as an example which was previously posted on the arena:

    Download WinDV (freeware).
    Download VirtualDubMod (freeware).

    1. Import video using WinDV.
    2. Open video in VirtualDubMod
    3. Change framerate from 25fps to say 1 or 2fps.
    4. You can diable sound or just lower volume
    5. Cheap slow motion software.
  7. Griff

    Griff Moderator

  8. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Ian has kindly saved me the bother of looking for the link that he has just posted. The first course I did was a prescription writing course with Langer which was good for understanding basic(but arguably outdated) assessment techniques and how they relate to prescription. I'm sure the course content has evolved since 8 years ago but at my stage in learning I found it very useful. It is very focused on usage of their products.

    Personally, I am booked on to the Biomechanics Bootcamp in London in November and that is supposed to be a really top notch couple of days. Might see you there?


  9. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    As has been said by others, what you are using it for will determine what the best value for money product is(or perhaps even free)

    In my private clinic, I find that having the capacity to measure angles, produce reports through the software and do things like overlays of one piece of footage on to another makes my makes what I am looking at more clear to the patient and undeniably helps to make my practice look more professional.

    Obviously, those things have no bearing whatsoever on my clincical abilities or my professionalism and are all for the patient's benefit. I know plenty of clinicians who are substandard(and that criticism may be levelled at me for all I know) and base everything on showing pretty pictures instead of sound biomechanics.

    If you just want an assessment tool for you to see things more clearly, then a specialised system is overkill

    I hope you find something that works for you


  10. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Robin - you measure angles from a one camera 2-D analysis?
  11. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Yes although having read through Simon's post, I am not sure we are talking about the same thing.

    The angles measured are only coronal or sagittal plane angles based on surface markers placed on the patient's skin and then manually selcted for measuring via a tool within the software. Basically still a subjective measure with glorified goniometer but i have tried testing my reliability and am pretty good although I couldn't give figures

    I am quite open about this with my patients and make sure that they understand that what I am measuring is essentially subjective and as it is only a kinematic representation, has no bearing on the forces/tissue stresses.

    As I said, I am not sure I am talking about the same thing as Simon when it comes to measuring "angles"
  12. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    I wouldn't put words in Simons mouth, but I've read his comments on the arena before about requiring 3D analysis for measuring meaningful kinematic data (paraphrasing from memory)

    It's the parallax error with 2D thats it's limitation
  13. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    I don't know Ian, it sounds like you are putting me in the s*!t!:drinks

    I suppose the point I am making is that I don't think what I am measuring is particularly meanigful which is why I said that it is mainly for the patient's benefit. Everything I want to see, I can see without having to measure the "angles" and this is not because I don't think that there is anything else to see but that my lack of knowledge at this stage renders much of the technology available obselete as I cannot interpret it!

    I use it to demostrate basic principles and to give a slightly more objective measure of alignment, post orthotic fitting, than the mark 1 eyeball (emphasis on the slightly)

    As for the parallax error, I'm going to have to Google what it means before doing anything else.


  14. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Haha - sorry mate - not my intention I promise :eek:

    Here's a previous thread I've found which touches on it: http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=7303
  15. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    For those of you interested in the parallax and error

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax .........I didn't know that was the name for it

    Yes this is clearly a problem for the set up that I use and it is very noticeable on patients who have large amounts of rotational deformity. In these cases I have in the past I have taken seperate video footage of each leg to reduce the effect of parallax but I take the point.

    I should know by now that when you ask a one line question, Ian, that you are fishing for the answer you already know is about to be given........ie, the wrong one!

    Damn you Kropotkin!(tried to find the youtube video for this from the Mary Whitehouse Experience but couldn't get it.)

  16. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

  17. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Love that show.

    "You know that manky stuff you get down the side of toenails?"
    "I am aware of onychophosis formation yes..."
    "Thats you, that is"
  18. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

  19. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    The ultimate 'boys toy' ,.... and I got one! .... it does 300 (or more) frames per second, whereas all other digital video are only 25. HOWEVER, I do not know if any of the software packages other than Silicon Coach can handle the speed.
  20. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    I think you have the EXF1 camera- the EXF20 is newer and has more megapixels, but 'only' 200fps with smaller image. Not sure that thedy are making the EXF1 any more... :(
    For software, look up 'kinovea'. It is compatible with .mov files, and is FREE! Quintic also can read .mov files, but for basic stuff kinovea is excellent.
  21. cambspodman

    cambspodman Member

    Thanks for all the information guys, especially the free software.
  22. Griff

    Griff Moderator

  23. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    People actually commented on it in the "your thoughts" section below!

    Imagine leaving comment about useless bits of news that have only a passing interest to you on an online forum - saddos!

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