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Alex and the meaning of life

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Mark Russell, Jun 24, 2007.

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  1. Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.

    Guessed it yet??

    Do you think he should be warned about increased fertility?
  2. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    We have to follow his progress
  3. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

  4. The good news is that Alex probably won't need to be using Viagra anymore once he receives his new proprioceptive insoles. :cool:
  5. Love this wonderful piece of marketing from the Canadian distributor of Rothbart's insoles


  6. andymiles

    andymiles Active Member

    it appears they have the policeman from 'allo 'allo on the payroll
  7. Just caused me to laugh diet coke up my nose!

    Possibly on the R&D Dept. The sad thing is that the marketing Dept is obviously rather more advanced. This "blog" might well be convincing to Lay people. The diabolical geniuses.

    ??? Whats works for your pain is even better for your kids???

    Words sound like English but i don't understand that sentance at all! And are they actually accusing other people of selling snake oil?!?!?!?!

    It's a sad world we're living in my friends.

  8. Robeer,
    While I agree with the content of your post, you should probably spell-check if your going to write "sentances" like the one above! :p
  9. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member


    "Words sound like English but i don't understand that sentance at all! And are they actually accusing other people of selling snake oil?!?!?!?!

    If you like snake oil you'll love whale oil!

    Do these really work? Whale oil beef hooked

    Still don't understand? say it quickly. :D suddenly you'll discover an Irish accent you didn't know you had.

    Cheers Dave
  10. :D
    You're not wrong. I've been known to have problems with currant affairs too (like prune affairs but smaller).

    Some would claim to be dsyclsocslick and claim disability sympathy. Me i'm just bad at spelling and in too much of a hurry / too lazy to write in word, spell check, and paste into the forum. But still there was a whole thread on Craig needing a spell checker so i'm in good company!

    3/10 must try harder.

    And Dave it's irresponsible to make me say that in a busy office! ;)

    Still can't get over the rothbart posse accusing other people of being snake oil salesmen

  11. Perhaps you should change your name to Robart?
  12. Alex606

    Alex606 Welcome New Poster

    Hello, my name is Alex and I'm from Canada...sounds familiar?
    Yes, it is my blog that started this thread on your forum. And although I'm not a podiatrist, I'll just say a few words.

    Kevin: I red the other thread regarding Rothbart's insoles and infertility. But infertility and erectile problems are two different things. And being the scientist that you are, you should have mentioned here a drug that treats infertility and I'm not talking about snake oil here, I'm talking about something that everybody has been using for ages and has been mentioned in a dozen articles in peer-reviewed publications, like wearing boxers. But if I ever need advice on Viagra I can always come back to this forum and get it from you. ;)
    I also don't think you would have used this derogatory comment with one of your patients for instance, but maybe, with this forum being an "arena", anything goes.

    Looks like the general opinion is against Dr. Rothbarts's research or "research". I was actually very surprised to see how much passion and should I dare say venom was put in some of the posts.
    Well, I'm not a podiatrist and whatever I can tell you is that the Proprioceptive Insoles work for me and that's a fact so I owe Dr. Rothbart my thanks. I think this also supports Alex Catto's statements regarding his patients.

    Now, regarding Craig Payne's response to Alex Catto on Rothbarts Insoles thread:
    "Alex - the exact same success rate that you are claiming can be seen in the "placebo orthotic" in the control group of orthotic randomised controlled trials. Anyone and everyone can claim success!!" i.e. "same success rate" refers to a very high success rate!!

    Well, Craig, this statement of yours is a very heavy one. If a drug company would claim this about human testing done on their drug, would you take it? What does this say about podiatry in general :confused:
    I think this statement could be the topic of a multi-page thread or even a conference in your field of work.

    Alex the blogger
  13. One Foot In The Grave

    One Foot In The Grave Active Member

    He probably wrote it there himself.
    I obviously shouldn't be looking for that same old wheel for my car as wheel technology is how many thousand years old?
  14. Alex:

    I blue it off once I red it. :rolleyes:
  15. Alex606

    Alex606 Welcome New Poster

    One can as easily say that buttons are an age-old, very useful and still very effective invention. Still, these days we use both buttons and zippers, but there is no point in getting into polemics about this.

    To be clear, I have nothing against traditional orthotics, especially ones that are custom-crafted for each unique individual's problems. They are expensive but worth every penny for many people. I started the blog because, as I'm sure you are aware, there are many, way too many generic products that are not that effective, all of them using more or less the same principles. Personally I don't tolerate anything with arch support, and was at first intrigued and also very curious about the Proprioceptive Insoles because it does sound like it's a new approach, at least to me - one of the general public.

    I also think that at least the same amount of virulent criticism and could be directed against other types of ineffective orthotics or insoles that produce way more profit for people that might have even fewer published papers.

    Cheers, Alex the blogger
  16. Well THAT's a relief. We were all about to abandon the methods we have all been using for 50 odd years with great and repeatable success. But if you're ok with it then we'll keep doing what works.


    I have'nt seen any articles in peer reviewed publications about wearing boxers. Do you have references? Also if you had read the threads properly you would see that there are in fact NO decent articles in peer reviewed journals which support Brians assumptions. He rather likes to claim that there are but there arn't.

    However i must complement you Alex. You seem to know your subject very well for a lay person. Talking about articles in peer reviewed journals, using all the lingo, Hyperpronation and such like.

    You should also be commended that your interest in podiatry continues after your symptoms are gone! What are the odds of your interest bringing you to a professional forum in which this topic has been discussed so frequently? Uncanny.

    I should also thank you for writing such a beautifully worded testimonial. It's good enough to go on Brians website! It reflects almost exactly the claims and launguage of his site. Spooky.

    Gosh i'm impressed. YOu know that you don't tolerate anything with an arch after trying all of two pairs. One of them from Wal Mart. However thankyou for reminding us that you are indeed one of the general public. We might have forgotton otherwise.

    Fewer than none?! Gosh thats pretty unsubstantiated! I think you will find that virulent critism is leveled at any company which makes unrealistic and unsubstantiated claims about it's products. I refer you to the threads regarding Ed Glaser, parish and bell and others.

    Anyway thanks for taking an interest bri... I'm sorry, Alex. :rolleyes:

    YOurs with the deepest respect.


    (Robart? Simon, i'm offended.)
  17. LCBL

    LCBL Active Member

    Step 1: Find an affiliate program that pays you for promoting a product
    Step 2: Build a blog with nice promotional articles/posts
    Step 3: Put loads of your affiliate links and text links in the posts
    Step 4: Go onto loads of relevant forums and make great supportive posts with a link in your signature to your blog (just google myflatfeet to see the forums you've posted on)
    Step 5: For added profit add Google Adsense to the blog

    Its called Forum Marketing is a an old affiliate marketing standard.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2007
  18. CEM

    CEM Active Member

    i looked into these a while back after a colleage came telling me a chiropractor friend of his had attended a presentation and thought they were fantastic :eek: :eek: ....... don't worry the chiropractor has got over his delusional state and normal service is resumed at his clinic. he does the bones and the pods and cpeds do this inserts for him. :)
  19. I guess the "Prof" has plenty of free time during summer recess. Good to see some of the other forums are just as tolerant of his claims as Podiatry Arena.
  20. [​IMG]

    I must say i admire their description of Brian. Very elegantly worded.

    By the by lcbl i've just noticed your emphasis. Very Droll. :D
  21. Alex606

    Alex606 Welcome New Poster

    Yes, my blog is affiliated to the Morton's foot website. It's not like I have hidden that from anybody who reads it. IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BLOG. So it's not your big discovery. I put the Google adds in there less than a week ago to demonstrate a point... And don't believe for a second that I'm getting rich with this blog. Take a look at the Morton's foot website and try to see if searches produce it easily. I tell you: NO. So, a little advertising on my blog for something I (not you) believe in, based on MY experience is MY choice.

    Now I see you also have Google adds on the forum page. Probably covers some of the hosting costs which is a good thing. But morally, is it acceptable to you that somebody who might be visiting your page and reading a post (and I do believe that people other than podiatrists read at least some of the threads) might be clicking on an add for a product that you may actually criticize somewhere in the thread, just because the adds are content-targeted? And they end up with a product that you actually despise...think about it. That's part of the point I was trying to make on the blog with Google adds.


    "However i must complement you Alex. You seem to know your subject very well for a lay person. Talking about articles in peer reviewed journals, using all the lingo, Hyperpronation and such like.
    I should also thank you for writing such a beautifully worded testimonial. It's good enough to go on Brians website! It reflects almost exactly the claims and launguage of his site. Spooky."

    HAHAHAHA!!!! This is really funny. Did you actually believed, if for a moment, that I am Brian Rothbart?
    I may not be a podiatrist but that doesn't mean I never published anything scientific. Peer reviewed and otherwise.

    Also, Robert, the boxer remark was a joke - not a good one I guess.

    So why am I still interested in podiatry? Because, as you know, it is interesting. And why am I posting here? For the sake of the argument, not to annoy you and not to popularize my blog.

    I just want to ask you something. Why is it that now, when I stand or walk barefoot I don't hyperpronate anymore. Does it have anything to do with the insoles I've been wearing for the past 5 months? Is it a bad thing?

    Cheers, Br..Alex the blogger :D
  22. You certainly have one thing in common with Rothbart - an uncanny knack of spounting bovine excrementum on a subjuct you patently have difficulty in comprehending. Alex, or whoever you are, why don't you upload a jpeg or wmv file of your "hyperpronated" feet without the rubber inlays and another demonstrating how these magical devices cure your problem. Look forward to seeing them :rolleyes:
  23. Do i think you're Brian Rothbart? You are a lay person with no grounding in biomechanics, no respect for the scientific process, and a level of knowledge of foot and lower limb function i would expect from a 1st year podiatry undergraduate who makes exaggerated claims of untested products in an apparently cynical attempt to aggrandise a company with the inherant morality of a puff adder. You claim that this product is proven by published studies when it is not and plug the company site at every oppertunity.

    Yep. The resemblance is uncanny. Either Brian or one of his evil minions. I picture them as like the oompa lumpas in charlie and the chocolate factory but with horns and tails. And without the chocolate waterfall obviously.

    On the off chance (and i consider it a very tiny chance) that you ARE a lay person who has been suckered into an overpriced placebo and are showing a strange desire to discuss your case with acedemics in a field you would need at least a degree or DPM to understand, what makes you think anyone would want to teach you biomechanics from scratch in order to discuss it with you? Come back when you understand what the hell you are talking about.

    I can't believe that yet again we are Dignifying this BS with a discussion. Could we ask Brian to leave us off his spam list in future?

  24. CEM

    CEM Active Member

    spam spam spam spam....spam spam spam lovely spam
  25. Spam and chips, egg and spam, spam spam peas and spam, spam spam spam spam spam eggs cheese and spam,... :D :D
  26. CEM

    CEM Active Member

    do you think some kind sole might come along and lock this thread prior to raising the 1st Met :) :p
  27. Reminds me of Morgan's meat pie paradigm. In fact the topic of discussion here fits well with Morgan's theories.
  28. I'll probably regret asking but morgans meat pie paradigm?!
  29. CEM

    CEM Active Member

    I am unable to coment due to current restrictions in movement of meat :)
  30. On attending a biomechanics course by a very large UK lab, Gary Morgan could not help but notice that whatever the pathology, the course tutors solution was a 4 degree/ 4 degree posted orthosis. On his way home our hero called in at the local fish 'N' chip shop and noted upon the menu a glut of meat pie items: meat pie and chips, meat pie and peas, meat pie and curry sauce, meat pie and fritters etc etc. He formulated his paradigm at this point: the 4 degree/ 4 degree post being analogous to the meat pie; everybody gets a meat pie, just with a different side order.

    Given the list of pathologies which are claimed to be "successfully" treated by the Rothbart insole, I wondered if this is the new meat pie, maybe a vegetarian option?
  31. CEM

    CEM Active Member

    vegetarian meat pie...now thats clever :D :D
  32. An insult to vegetarians the world over. Shame on you Dr Spooner.
  33. Alex606

    Alex606 Welcome New Poster

    Robert, thank you for your kind reply.

    No need to close the thread as I'm not posting here again. As I said, I'm not here to annoy you. Please show a little courtesy and do not continue to insult me.

    All the best to you all,
  34. Why do you think we have sharp teeth, only one stomach, a small appendix and don't produce two different kinds of poo (won't let me say sh!t)- one which is first pass that we eat again and one which is second pass that we don't?

    Interesting fact: the appendix which is used by certain vegetarian mammals such as rabbits to break down cellulose is so far down the G.I. tract that the rabbits have to eat their own first pass poo to extract the "goodness" from it, they then produce a second pass poo which they don't eat- I think there is a message in that for all of us- enjoy your salad.

    You don't make friends with lettuce, you don't make friends with lettuce...
  35. Love the meat pie paradigm. Will use that one. Wow, i was'nt expecting to learn anything useful from this thread.

    I refuse to eat vegetables on principles. At least the cows get a wander around in a nice field for a bit before we eat them. Think of the Poor lettuces planted in rows, no chance of escape crammed in leaf to leaf with only a few short months of life before the horrific inevitability of the pickers growing ever closer, watching their friends yanked from the ground... I say it's cruel!

    You veggies should be ashamed, ashamed i tell you!!!

    Looks like satans little helper has given up and got bored so my work here is done.
  36. thebbk

    thebbk Welcome New Poster

    This is a fascinating thread, as was the other one in debate of Dr. Rothbarts research.

    As I look over the posts, all I see are messages of bitterness. The "experts" here are poking fun at spelling, ones vitality and the like. This further supports the notion I've had over the past 5 years that many podiatrists are grounded in the ways of their schooling (Roots) and that anything other than that could not possibly be right.

    I am not a podiatrist and I am most definitely not associated with the site that sells the insoles. Five years ago, I was a decent runner, running fairly high mileage and running several marathons well under 3 hours. I had been having knee and ankle problems, so I went to a well regarded podiatrist and was fitted for orthotics. This helped a little but not completely. I went back and had the orthotics adjusted several times. Eventually, I saw 4 other podiatrists and ended up with six different pair of custom made orthotics! Each had their own approach to solving my overpronation issues.

    I tried every shoe/orthotic combination I could come up with and after two years I had a bad case of PF and very serious medial ankle issues. So bad in fact that I had to have surgery on my deltoid ligament of my right ankle because it had thickened and I was suffering from impingement.

    How could I have been having these problems? I had arch support and some of the orthotics had a mortons extension and still nothing was working.

    I researched mortons foot and found the site that has the insoles. I thought it was a ridiculous notion that these devices could work. What was going to stop my ankles from rolling in? I read the research findings and figured I should give it a try. I put the 3.5mm insoles in dress shoes and wore them constantly for the next few days. I kid you not, my PF symptoms cleared up at least 80% and my ankle pain disappeared, and that is a fact.

    I returned to running after about a week very cautiously. I was seriously nervous about my ankles blowing up. I took it easy and gradually built back up. When I walked around barefoot, my feet felt stronger. It was completely bizarre to me.

    Since then, I have been running successfully and I haven't had ankle issues or PF since.

    It seems to me that the purpose of scientific study and research in this area is to find solutions for your patients, not to get into ego tussles of who is right and who is wrong. We, the patients would really appreciate the best solutions.
  37. Thebbk:

    Thank you for your anecdotal study of one. Your experience is meaningless to me for scientific research purposes, but it is still valuable to yourself since you are running painfree now. I'm sure that any number of other solutions would have likely resulted in you healing your injury. I still think snake oil applies to the methods used to sell the insoles that you claim are so wonderful.
  38. thebbk

    thebbk Welcome New Poster

    Some people - they get an education and they decide to stop learning.
  39. Some people - they think that by making a single clinical observation on themselves makes them educated with sufficient expertise to train medical professionals.

    Wouldn't it be nice if these people like "thebbk" who are so knowledgeable about Rothbart's proprioceptive insoles actually gave us their names. They seem to expect the foot health professionals that belong to this site to be impressed with the fact that these insoles worked for them.

    Thebbk, you should go ahead and go to another forum of non-health professionals where your anecdotal observations can be added to all the other anecdotal observations of all the other contributors about the myriad therapies that have been significant in healing their injuries. Come back when you have become educated regarding the science of foot orthosis therapy so you can contribute something of significance for us.
  40. thebbk

    thebbk Welcome New Poster

    This is more of the same old rhetoric. I am not surprised at all. Clearly, you know far more than I about the science of biomechanics and such. My five years of research into this stuff would in no way compete with your education, so I will not engage in the ego contest - as it is clear that this is what you want to draw me into.

    I find it amusing that so many of you are so horrified at the notion that these devices might actually work in some case. Is it the threat to your custom orthotic business that causes you to feel this way? Why are so many of you so opposed to the possibility? Ego? Your own business? Amazing.

    As for giving you my name, I would have earlier, but since you have trivialized my reporting on these insoles as the musings of a single individual, what would be the point? It would have been a pleasure to discuss each situation and theory brought to me as each new custom orthotic was created in the hopes that it might provide valuable information. It seems that you are not in want of any of this. It's far easier to simply dismiss the fact that these devices are worth anything.

    No matter what is posted here, your minds are already made up. That's fine. I could care less one way or the other. I'll keep running in these snake oil insoles. My apologies. I thought I was posting in a thread of doctors that were a little more open minded.
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