Can we take legal action against NHS Podiatry Depts for undermining Podiatrists

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Ok, my local NHS Podiatry dept has pamphlets, etc dotted all around their NHS Podiatry clinics in our local county. The pamphlets state that Podiatrists do not undertake simple toenail cuts (with their NHS logo on all the documents).

Because this is incorrect information - Podiatrists do undertake simple toenail cuts, it is just the NHS Podiatrists who do not undertake simple toenail cuts, could I take legal action against my local NHS Podiatry Dept for misinforming the public and in fact resulting in me losing business because folk think Podiatrists do not undertake simple toenail cuts.

If this is possible, what type of solicitor do you have to hire, e.g. solicitor specialising in employment law, etc.

Anyone else keen on taking legal action against their local NHS Podiatry Dept for misinforming the public regarding Podiatrists and simple toenail cuts?

 

A solicitor will ask how much business you are losing because of their leaflets.
Do you know (not a guesstimate)?

 

David, I definately know of 120 ....but I know there are tons more.....The 3 nursing homes are using the FHP. The nursing homes said that they did that because the NHS Podiatry dept (Podiatrists) do not undertake simple toenail cuts. So that is why they tracked down a FHP to cut their residents toenails......I also charge less than the FHP:bang:

So because the local NHS Podiatry dept gave out incorrect information, I lost out on a definate 120 patients, which I would have seen on a regular basis.

I thought maybe I could claim financial damages against the the NHS Podiatry dept for providing incorrect information to members of the public!!!!

 

The answer, as is so often the case is yes...and no. You can, of course, take action against them (the lawyers will love it) but the chances of winning against the NHS are small, and even if you do, the damages will not cover your outlay.

It might be worth writing to the Trust Board (not the department) and putting your case whilst asking if they will:

i) cease providing incorrect information
ii) ask to put your brochures in the department as compensation.

All the best

Bill

 

If NHS podiatry departments were to take on nail cuts for patients without high risk medical needs then everyone in the UK would be entitled to free NHS podiatry treatments including nail cuts and I think you would find that you would lose alot more business if not be put out of business. The NHS having this exculsion criteria is actually what gives you a patient case load.

 

The NHS Podiatry Service is already running at full capacity, hence the exclusion policy for 'low-risk' care. If the NHS were to lift the exclusion and allow entltlement to everyone, the demand and waiting times for NHS care would increase dramatically, which would have the effect of fuelling migration from public to private care across the board. As an aside, general podiatric practice outside the NHS is usually rather more challenging and varied than simply looking after simple nail care from NHS exluded patients....

 

Well I've seen it all now!

1. No
2. Seriously?!?!

 

incredible lovefeet blame anybody but yourself get your act together. i also believe that the nhs getting rid of patients is good for pp people who cant get it free will have to pay you should be thanking the nhs and paying them referal fees. NHS pod depts are your colleagues not your enemies.

 

Thanks everyone for replies. Yes, have decided to take them on legally. Everyone is entitled to free Podiatry needs, including simple toenail cutting. So will take this matter to court and then the high court and the the European court.

At least this will be one way I can stand up for my profession and I can also ensure that all the general public will have access to Podiatrists - who are professionally trained.

Remember, when you cut toenails,you also looking at the general state of limbs, feet, so able to recognise any deterioration. So do believe that Podiatrists and podiatry assistants should be cutting toenails.

I guess the NHS won't be too chuffed with the outcome if they do have to change their discharge policies but at the end of the day increased work load will result in employing more staff....which will be better for the general public and the Podiatrists who are wanting jobs in the NHS....

 

This is clearly written by someone who does not understand how the NHS works. If free footcare was given to everybody not based on medical need then it would cost the local trust too much. They therefore would chose not to have that service. It would then be open for other bidders to take on the service (i.e virgin healthcare) and it service would go to the cheapest bidder. Therefore this poses an even bigger threat to the private pod on the high street.

 

i hope you can get legal aid cos theres no way you can afford this foolishness. southeast pod is quite right they would scrap it all to virgin healthcare if they could. be under no illusions they are not going to employ reems of podiatrists and the european court cant make them. why dont you try and get them the martini service on the nhs any time any place anywhere . ccgs are free to commision based on local needs so there is no national podiatry policy , this poses a big problem for you as you would have to take on every ccg in the uk you will need to live till your 150 years old. if you write to your local ccg under the freedom of imformation act they will send you auseless reply which is politeley telling you to guess what go forth etcetc.

 

Fishpod, the european court can't make them employ more podiatrists or podiatry assistants, but they can certainly raise the issue of free footcare to folk. As it currently stands in the NHS, folk have to wait between 12 - 16 weeks for routine footcare. This in itself is horrendous for folk, so they will see private practioners inbetween appointments. This happens quite a bit in my case.

Fishpod I am going forward with this matter on principal. It would be a shame if Virgin healthcare took over all the NHS Pod dept, but that is not my problem. As long as you provide a good service (privately), then there should be no problem with regard to private business.

Fishpod, the profession is up the swanney....there is nothing we can do about it. At least I would be able to say i did my bit to help patients to access free simple toenail cuts. ...

 

the issue of free footcare has been raised and unfortunateley the commputer says no . i myself will soon have to discharge low risk diabetics ime not keen on this but my commissiners hold the purse strings so thats what i will do. its all a big game you just have to keep learning how to play a new instrument . they cut diabetic care and up orthotic provision so it looks like ill be busy doing msk instead of nail trims for diabetics.if i can adapt to these once in 10 year changes ime still in the game still ontop but you have to embrace change and give the powers that be what they want you cant fight them all the time. anyway why should people with no pathologies get nail cuts for free whats wrong with a little personal responsibility next thing you will be wanting haircuts and manicures plus all the other qa uck alternative therapies. guess what we thats all of us cant afford it.

 

Have to agree with you on this one. Am not talking about folk who do not have a medical need. Our local NHS discharge Diabetics, risk category 2, who require toenail cuts (they only do diabetic assessment on them 1 x year). They also discharge folk who are registered blind and have involuted toenails and also some of these registered blind pts have oesteoarthritis. These are just some examples of the folk who are been discharged and yet need the experitise of a Podiatrist/ podiatry assistant.

 

Bill's right, best course would be simply to talk to the trust/organisation running the service & ask them to change their literature.

Suing the NHS trust may actually back fire on you from a PR point of view.........ultimately any money you recoup from the trust, if successful, is public money....which would be spun as being tax payers money.... & in times of austerity, would not look good. There was a recent case in our area of the public taking the NHS to court....the costs were mentioned repeatedly & as it progressed, people complained about that point more & more.

 

I dispair. I truly do. Just when I think this profession has lost it's ability to astound me.

Good luck with this! It's your time to waste I suppose.

 

Lovefeet, or whatever your name is, you are a fool, and I hope, if you do pursue this, that it ends up costing you a fortune and gets dismissed for the absolute cock that it is. You want to help further the profession and sort the situation out, then get in touch with the trust and discuss the matter, rather than sitting at home, feeling sorry for yourself watching too many claims direct adverts!

Enjoy wasting your time

Chris

 

Thanks Cperrin.....always good to know the supporters are routing for the underdog. And that you have patient care at the top of your list....

 

I don't think the original suggestion merits any response other than those already made, but I am curious as to why you would expect support from anyone - irrespective of the strength of argument - when you hide behind an anonymous moniker whilst sniping at those less fortunate but clearly more capable than yourself?

 

Lovefeet can you swing it for me to get my hair cut by the NHS. It keeps growing and I am at risk of walking into something if not delt with. I am entiled, I pay my stamp!

:s

 

Indeed.

The reports today on Stafford hospital kinda put things into perspective with respect to where NHS funding/priority lay. Sueing for misleading info on toenail cutting? Yeah, right.

 

as a pp,you should be embracing all these cost cutting excercises the nhs are making.on one hand the nhs are carrying out more routine diabetic screening for individuals,(rightly so).when they find someone borderline diabetic they give them a free leaflet frightening the person that there feet have a chance of dropping off unless they see a podiatrist.when the patient goes to see the nhs podiatrist and they r classed as low risk they are told they cant carry out routine podiatry apart from an annual screening.thats were pp's come in.this will continue even more over the next few years,and could even affect moderate risk patients.

 

Hi Corby,

I`m glad to hear that you refer low-medium risk pts with diabetes to your colleagues in private practice. I`m all for alleviating the strain on NHS resources....so long as there is a clear pathway to refer urgent cases to the MTD team.

Cheers,
Bel

 

Nice first post :welcome:

 

Corby, I do not see it as ethical to refer NHS patients to private Podiatry pals. As mentioned this is from an ethical point of view, it would be best that when NHS Podiatrists do discharge patients, they should provide the patient with a list of foot health folk who undertake private treatments, in the local area. This ensures that patients make their own choice. I say this, just to avoid personal difficulties in the future...

Southampton University Pod Dept were very good at teaching ethics

 

sorry for the misunderstanding,i am a pp.not worked with the nhs for 15 years.just scanning the forums and there seems to be a bit of a split forming between pp and nhs care.we should be working together.i did notice a certain amount of jealousy amongst fellow nhs pods towards pp's when i worked there and i seem to be reading a lot of pp's wary of nhs changes.from where i am sitting nhs podiatry is going to be stripped down to high/moderate risk patients.that leaves a lot for the private practice community.dont think its helpful starting discussions about suing the nhs.im just a lover not a fighter.

 

Corby,yes you are correct, it has been stripped down to its bare minimum (where I am anyway). I understand what you saying and in theory that would be great for the pp, and would support it 100%. However, I am not sure if you have been in touch with the Dept of Health at all regarding foot health. If not, just so you know they endorse FHPs doing foot treatments, as long as service users know the difference...Maybe it is just me, but I did not think statutory unregulated people were suitable to provide foot treatments to the vulnerable, but according to The Dept of Health they are!!!

So, my thoughts are it would be wonderful if NHS did discharge to pp, but with The Health Dept views and acceptance of FHPs for those service users in the social care section including private nursing homes and private care agencies providing private caresr, this is not good for pp. Like you , my understanding is the NHS Trusts are hard up for cash. In my area, the NHS Pods have showed folk how to cut their toenails (which is good, but they have also showed carers how to cut toenails, and there were a number of carers who could not bear the thought of cutting their service users toenails.....which of course is not good for the service user. Because the job would get done but probably not as well as someone who enjoys cutting toenails (e.g. myself). As it turned out, in my neck of the woods, one of the carers advertised herself as a FHP, ....and now does all the nursing homes, and the care agency service-users....Two of the nursing homes are operated by the local council, I contacted them and they contacted the nursing homes, to find out why they would use a FHP instead of me, a pod, and they said they were happy with the service the FHP provided....and did not see why they should...so was not very happy with that.....Bear in mind the service users were paying this FHP.

In my area its tiny, and there are 5 FHPs and myself (2 of these FHPs arrived about 14 months ago). The thing is my NHS Trust states on all their pamphlets, etc that Podiatrists do not do simple nail cuts....this has resulted in a number of potential patients not using my Podiatry service. This has meant that risk category 2 patients are been treated by FHPs privately. So yes in theory it would be great if NHS patients were discharged to private pp, but in my case it has shown to be the opposite....

I hear you about the loving thing...but been loving so long and got me no where so decided to do the grumpy thing instead....and feel so much better!!!!

You could say, move...but if you move...then what happens at the next place you move to....do you move again when the FHPs set up business.

So Corby, I made up my mind and decided to bail out the profession. Which made me very sad, but I just found it to difficult to compete against the FHPs...so have to go back to uni to study another degree....

I do feel that the Heads of NHS Podiatry Trusts, and those Podiatrists who liaised with The Dept of Health on footcare to allow anyone to cut toenails (which resulted in the opportunity for FHPs to do even more work)have played a role in the pp demise. In my opinion it resulted in way too much unfair competition (statutory regulated against non statutory regulated). So unfortunately that is why I have had to pack it in....But am not too old to learn new tricks....so back to uni I go...

Hope things continue to work out for you in pp

 

sorry to hear about that,makes me feel a bit bad now.ill keep an eye out for any fhps.cheers.

 

Hi Lovefeet, I am an NHS Podiatry Assistant, Our Podiatrists try not to do any simple nail cuts, they try to transfer any simple nail cutting referrals to mine & our other podiatry assistant collegues clinics. If the patient has other problems to go along with the nails; ie Corns or severe callus that cannot be removed using a file or blacks file, then the podiatrist will treat them, other than that, the patient will go to me or my collegues. I dont know how it is in other NHS Podiatry Departments, but thats pretty much how mine works... Not sure if thats any help?

 

Hi James, thank you for explaining your set up to me. Yes, your NHS Trust set up is the correct way, that is how I was taught when I was a student. But the NHS Trust set up here in my neck of the woods is so bad, that they do not have Podiatry Assistants. They just so strapped for cash....or so they lead me and the rest of our county to believe they are.....If they did have Podiatry Assistants that would not bother me, in fact, I would be really happy with that, knowing patients feet are been taken care of in the NHS.

CORBY - just be aware of your future...and just do the best you can. The fact that you have been in pp for years now, means that you have an established business and clientele basis (hope that is the case)....Maybe things are not so good for the Podiatry newcomers setting up private practice in their local areas....So I just think of them and hope they do ok....

 

Wait - are you saying you're not going to move now?
Because in another very recent thread didn't you talk about moving closer to daddy so he could pay your Med School fees?
.

 

......

 

Yes David I am leaving the UK, to pursue another degree. The reason for this is that I cannot keep moving to another part of the UK to set up a private Podiatry practice knowing that the FHPs can do the same work at me, etc etc etc.

 

The most honest post you've ever written. Always good to know one's limitations.

 

Ever get the feeling youve walked in on someone elses conversation.ive just scanned my area i can only find 1 fhp in a area covering 200,000 people.there may be more out there but they are either content and no need to advertise or rubbish at marketing.

 

Corby....that is good. But if you got time do a more intense search (sorry don't mean to imply you have not done so already). But try the following:-
(1) Do a search of Podiatrists in your area both yellow pages, and Accredited section of The Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists.
(2) Then compare those names against the HCPC register.
(3) If there is a business name advertised on yellow pages, try and search out if it is indeed a Pod or it could be a FHP.
(4) There had been, and could still be FHPs still on the Accredited section of the Register of The Society of Chiropodists and Pods.
(5) There have been and could still be FHPs who advertise on the yellow pages.

In my area, they are not in the phonebook....