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Cheeky FHP! But seriously - Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by stevewells, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

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    Came across this by way of a friendly local GP - this person is apparently a practice nurse currently working in a local practice (trying to find out where) and is using that fact as part of her self promotion as a Foot Health Practitioner. She seems to have worded the leaflet cleverly to avoid prosecution but boy is she pushing it!!
    What irks me is that she is passing these leaflets around local GP practices.

    (spelling and grammar a bit dodgy too!)


    Attached Files:

  2. Hello Steve

    Nothing wrong with the leaflet, but I'm not sure why people are still advertising as Foot Health Pracitioners. There's no need ..... chiropodist and podiatrist are usually recognised by the public these days.

    Best wishes
  3. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    She's SMAE trained so I'd send a copy of it SMAE and ask them what they think of it and also a copy for the HCPC. They may not be able to do anything but at least they'll know what the problem is.


    I'm not sure what you're on Mark but I certainly don't want any of it.....:rolleyes:
  4. Doogle

    Doogle Active Member

  5. Simon Ross

    Simon Ross Active Member

    Who is that in the photo?
  6. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Simon Ross

    I was wondering that myself, and what it had to do with the thread? :confused:

    Here's another one doing the same trick, however, the fact that the words "Chiropodist" and "Podiatrist" are in bold will be enough for an HCPC investigation...

  7. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

    couple of typos in that leaflet
  8. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    dont know which part of the country shes in but she charges more than me must be a clever girl cos 35 quid is to steep here up north . if she keeps busy she will get minted. looks like epsom surrey so normal fees for that part of uk
  9. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    The point being that she's not actually in breach of any regulation and is thus doing nothing wrong. In the second leaflet referred to, the practitioner goes so far as to say that she is not a chiropodist or podiatrist.
    When will we learn that in such cases appealing to the HCPC is a total waste of time and money. That body is not there to support the profession, to protect the public or for any other laudable reason. They are there to act as a disciplinary body for the registered practitioners, to assist NHS employers discharge who they wish without dirtying their own hands, and as a self perpetuating oligarchy. Ask yourself; you effectively employ these people and who is going to have the greater pension?

    Bill Liggins
  10. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    Dear bill i agree with your appraisal of the hcpc and agree the lady has not broken any rules .
    its just that she had to use the chiropody/podiatry word . ps seen the advert like a golf but not a golf same in this case really she just had to link herself to chiropody podiatry when in actual fact she does not have to.
  11. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Yes, but they always will, and there's sweet Fanny Adams we can do about it until the profession grows up, takes charge of its own destiny and in doing so asserts control over the whole of the foot care industry.

    All the best

    Bill Liggins
  12. jonnorthants

    jonnorthants Member

    I can t really see a problem here. This lady is qualified to treat the conditions she lists and states quite correctly that she is simliar to a chiropodist or podiatrist. In as much as they treat the same conditions she is of course correct. its the regulation and the way that the HCPC organises the profession that is at fault not this lady trying to run a business. I hope she doesnt come accross these posts I m sure I would be most upset if I was her and read them (i m a chiropodist)
  13. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    I agree with other posters in that the problem is not the practitioner trying to start a business but that she is being allowed to distribute these leaflets via GP surgeries.

    This, IMO, infers a recommendation and I always thought that GPs did not refer to the private sector??

    I don't see why, Jonnorthants. If you advertise "out there" in the public domain then you must expect people to read your advertising material and make comment. At least she know that someone is reading them !!
  14. In my area a Podiatrist is renting space at a GP surgery so I guess times are changing re privatisation / GP fund holders etc and also the reduction in NHS chiropody services.
    It is most disheartening to hear a Podiatrist again feeling so threatened.... a FHP is trained to a specific level and yes this is not the same as a Podiatrist but neither does a FHP worth his or her salt wish to work outside his or her specific level of competence - is it that in some cases a Podiatrist is opting for an easy life undertaking low level competence work while charging more to fit the letters after their name, instead of extending their practise and working to the full extent of their scope & earning a corresponding higher amount as a result??? that would explain where all this fear comes from..... skill mix has already happened in other disciplines, dentistry, nursing to name two, there are increasing numbers of people who simply cannot reach or see their own feet- isn't it better that a trained FHP does this work rather than an untrained care worker? There are enough feet to go round everyone ... by engaging with the FHP you will get client referrals they do not feel competent to treat and if you really embraced them and referred to them you could charge a finders fee say 10% of her fee - this could actually be a win win for you if you turn it on its head and look for the positives.
  15. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Buddleigh Foot Health,
    I think we've discussed this topic more than once on this forum.

    I don't know where the idea comes from that Chiropodists/Podiatrists feel "threatened"?

    When I see FHPs marketing themselves as Pods I do feel scared, but scared for the prospective clients. as I can see them being condemned to a life of "cut & come again" "treatment".

    From what I have seen, most FHP courses encourage the practitioners to see their clients every 6 weeks and make them dependent. I believe that most FHPs don't have the underpinning knowledge and skill base to know how to extend the treatment interval. Hence the above.

    I prefer to empower my patients. By working together to address the foot problem they have I can successfully extend the treatment interval to 3 months for 90% of my case load.
    There will always be the 10% who have chronic problems or who refuse nail surgery or who are non-compliant but that's their choice.

    At the moment I am very busy as one FHP here has disappeared leaving all her patients in the lurch. I have had to deal with a steady stream of onychauxic/gryphotic nails. Don't FHPs treat these ??? Well this one certainly didn't !
    To add insult to injury she told her patients she was a Chiropodist and they aren't best pleased to find out she wasn't.

    Incidentally, I contact all new FHPs who start up in my area. I write to them introducing myself and offering my services for anything that falls outside their scope of practice. The result is a big fat zero. Not one ever had the courtesy to reply. :rolleyes:
    To me that says it all.
  16. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

  17. As in everything there are good and bad - I already have a reciprocal relationship and if you are 'near the sea' near to me I would welcome one with you too!
  18. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member


    Hmmm, I suppose that could be true but I don't see any Pods out there advertising themselves as brain surgeons :rolleyes:

    Here's another ;-


    well, thanks but I'm afraid that won't be possible, as I live 300 miles away from you. :D
  19. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    Nievety or stupidity. a fhp will never send private referrals to a podiatrist never had one in 30 years dont think its likely to change any time soon . fhps respect podiatrists again i dont think so . we can all work in harmony i dont think so . I believe they work in splendid isolation and the whole job is about the money you only have to look at advertisments recruiting them to train. Personnally i am not againt their existance its all about choice. the annoying thing is i advertise as a podiatrist not a doctor gp or specialist but fhps advertise as podiatrists its their M
    O. To do so they aim to confuse / decieve the general public . they dont say last month i was a house wife married to a plumber now im a foot specialist shazam.
  20. oh dear I can ony speak for myself and those who I know. I am a nurse by background & I put that on my ads as it is relevant; i have specific assessment and background theory in order to practice safely and know my limitations. I run two nail care clinics along side a pod in her practise and I do the doms leaving her free to introduce foot surgery to her practise so enhancing what is on offer. She gets paid a % per client and gives me the support when I need it to either take over for a bit / completely or advise. I used to be a health visitor I am used to listening to people and find that on my home visits part of what the client wants is someone to talk to - I have ended up late for following visits when clients have started talking about difficult subjects as I am about to leave. I charge the same as my peers here and not as much as the pod but in my eyes I am delivering a different service, not as technically specialised as a podiatrist but just as needed in our growing elderly and isolated population. As I said there are good and bad in everything , it is a shame to tar every FHP with the same brush. I know of a guy 'Pete the feet" round here who visits residential homes with a holdall - no sterilising, handwashing and for my new client no filing as he had ran out of files ?- it looked like he had bit the nail off & so she went elsewhere for a better service. IF the client isnt happy they will walk.
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  21. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Now this is interesting ...

    I thought it was unethical for a pod to accept payment for referrals? Or have I got that wrong? :confused:

    The Society of Chiropodists & Podiatrists say this in their Code of Ethics ;-

    "6.2 Cross-referral fees are prohibited where that cross-referral fee might
    undermine judgement or duty of care to patients. The client must be
    given full information about any cross-referral fees payable. "
  22. the clients all know i am working with the podiatrist as part of her service. the clients were all and are still part of her practice its just that i see them with their consent. The pod gets a fee as it was her marketing etcetc and the ones who i see in the nail care clinic are all seen by a pod first and asked if they want to use a nail care only clnic which is specific ally only nails only 20 mins and less money as its on her premises / her clients she gets a set amount per client which I assumed was routine practise.... fyi i dont get any money for the clients i refer in to see the pod who would only know about the clinic / pod from me.
    As i understand this part of your code we are not in breach - are you this argumentative in all areas of your life or just here?
  23. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member


    Good. Then the pod in question has nothing to worry about does she?

    This is a discussion forum where people kick ideas about, challenge each other intellectually, ask questions and argue.

    If you aren't happy with that maybe you shouldn't be here? ::rolleyes:
  24. That's the best laugh I've had for years - the intellectually aspiring Catflap. Hang on, I need me litter tray...!!
    why not? She isn't doing anything wrong....
  25. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    budliegh is working as a podiatry assistant for a podiatrist that is fairly normal practice if there is any comeback it is the podiatrist left holding the can . In this instance she makes no diagnoses no treatment plans and works under supervision again this is quite normal. how they split the fees to pay for the fhp is a matter for them. If a nail cut patient needs sending back to the podiatrist due to new problems this is also normal practice.
  26. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Thanks fishpod for explaining BFH's rather garbled posting 5th may 7.16.pm ;)


    Is it ?? I thought FHPs were trained to be autonomous practitioners?

    Maybe you can explain this BFH, as why you choose to be what seems IMO to be a handmaiden to a Pod?
  27. I understand the cat analogy now and although I believe this is just another morsel for you to play with and that 'intellectual' is way off the mark.... As a way to be mentored as I am aware of my limitations... to build a relationship with the pod rather than set up in competition... and because working as part of a team is so much nicer than being isolated... there is no difference financially to me .... it increases the advertising for my service for me.... and I can use my nursing skills to assist in surgical procedures increasing my experiences... to name a few... I have clients off my own advertising and half of my work is domicillary... i have the best of both worlds and am not treated as a handmaiden .. You are both probably right in that I expected this forum to be much more professional and research related than it is and actually I find the facebook forum i am in to be much more informative than here with both other FHP's and podiatrists sharing experiences and information.
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  28. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Oh, you mean acting as the "dirty nurse" in nail surgery done by a pod?

    And what will you do with that experience?

    So what sort of "research" are you interested in as a low-level footcare practitioner, and what do you plan to do with it?

    There is a plethora of information available on this site and links to research carried out by some of the leaders in the field of Podiatry - I am sorry you can't find it. :rolleyes:
  29. fungal nail treatments as I want to be able to use a research based treatment not just vaseline and quite frankly if i did not know my po I would get a very poor impression from you. A very sanctimonious arse pompous prig and other words spring to mind - people making themselves feel important by putting others down is not an attractive characteristic and you do your profession no favours
  30. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
    I am sorry you feel you need to throw insults about.

    From what you have said on this forum you have had an admirable career in the NHS. First as a Nurse then as a Health Visitor. I spent 25 years in the NHS and know that HVs have to have qualifications in both District Nursing and Midwifery. There is a desperate need for these skills in all the Trusts I know of, either P/T or as Bank staff. There is so much you could still give to our beleaguered NHS that is struggling to cope with demand, especially in Midwifery.

    You have chosen to throw all this away and for reasons known only to yourself train as an FHP
    That was your choice.

    You will never be anymore than what you are. You are a person delivering footcare on the lowest rung of the footcare ladder. You accepted this when you took on that training/role, so please don't get tetchy when someone reminds you of this.

    Then you said,

    Whaaaat? You were taught at your FHP trainng school to use vaseline?? Holy bl**dy sh!£, you wonder why I can't take you seriously??

    I need a lie down.....
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  31. blinda

    blinda MVP


    I have no idea what Catfood wrote, nor do I want to know, but from your replies I am not surprised to conclude that this acerbic poster is still p1ssing in the wind with their futile attempts at provocative comments. Your `ignore` button is there for good reason.

    Good to see that you have a professional relationship with a pod, keep up the thirst for further research and learning :drinks

  32. I'm often reminded that Freudian slips are amongst the more honest and accurate self-appraisals possible. Lie down? Put down, more like.
  33. ... No I was not taught to use Vaseline that was just an example of what people are using and I don't want to do that... I want to know if the clearanail drill system works as I see a lot of fungal nail doing my nail clinics and having something that really works to offer would be wonderful.
    I gave up health visiting after the powers that be decided it was ok to return a baby to a family who had smashed her against a wall giving her a fractured head, multiple rib fractures amongst other injuries when she was 6 weeks old. I had a lot to offer but the stress of protecting children in a system that did not want to hear what I had to say in my professional opinion was too much. I took time out as a cleaner and 'girl Friday' for the elderly and while my children who are 6, 9 & 11 are still young I am not free to add to my degree collection with another ..at this time. I am gaining experience daily in a non stressy way and enjoying it - I am not upset about being on the bottom rung as you call it - I have tried to show you that not all FHP's are the same and it is possible to work with one in a positive way. I got cross because it feels like you just want to argue the tiny details rather than engage in a proper conversation
    so .... have you got any thoughts research based or otherwise regarding the Clearanail drill system? I currently use Tea Tree Oil as I understand this to be as good as anything else.
  34. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    If you can't see my postings then you aren't in a position to make an intelligent, informed response are you, sweetie?

    Where, in the name of sweet reason, does it say that vaseline is a treatment for fungal nails ??? What FHP training school advocates that?

    So what where you taught to use at your training school FFS ?!

    TT Oil has so many contraindications that it's dangerous - ask your supporter Bel about that, she's the one with the interest in Dermatology here.

    I need a G & T.:rolleyes:
  35. blinda

    blinda MVP

    I doubt very much that Catfood has offered you a helpful reply, but if you would like my opinion, I think the Clearanail device could be a helpful adjunct to tinea therapy. That said, I use my drill with a very fine bur to achieve the same results.

    With regards to Tea Tree Oil, I would advise you to recommend its application with care. I am aware that many `qualified podiatrists` and `unregulated` practitioners do advocate its use for tinea, as it is certainly anti-microbial, but this is down to its active ingredients; that is turpenoids, which are documented as known sensitizers for contact dermatitis, see here; http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showpost.php?p=353520&postcount=7

    Hope that helps.
  36. thank you belinda
  37. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Well Blinda,
    I know you can't see this reply, but others can.

    I suggested that BFH address her queries to you .....is that not helpful ? Hmmmm:rolleyes:

    PS That G & T went down well, I might have another while sat next to the chimera and destroying the ozone layer....
  38. Myself

    Myself Member

    I also have a very successful career in the NHS working as a specialist cardiovascular nurse with a background within surgery. Now also working as a private FHP. I don't see this as "throwing it all away" but rather a career choice. I have studied my degree and hold a high pressured post within nursing. I work within a multidisciplinary team from consultants to cleaners and each is a valued and respected member of staff and no one within my team would ever berate another member in this way no matter what position they hold. Some people are happy with what is described here as "the bottom rung". I feel comfortable working alongside healthcare assistants who are the equivalent to an FHP in the pod world and would never insult them or heir abilities just because they haven't studied at a higher level. Nursing has always worked in a multi tiered manner and each level is viewed as vital as the next. Having the advantage of being in both positions I can honestly say I have met some fabulous and supportive podiatrists that embrace the FHP role and in my nursing profession will always respect individual team members from the bottom to the top. Budleigh... Don't be disheartened by this thread.... There are some great pods out there who are willing and comfortable to pass on their knowledge and share it with FHP's rather than using it as something to bash FHP's with, in an attempt to flex their self belief of superiority. Knowledge is power and the pods and orthopaedic surgeons I have come across are happy to pass it on to help empower staff and educate rather than berate.
  39. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    You are comparing apples and pears here.
    You cannot equate the NHS nursing model (which operates in a structured environment) to private sector Podiatry Practice.

    and you say you operate a FHP practice as well - I wonder when you have the time/energy?:rolleyes:

    Now this confuses me.
    FHPs are trained to be "stand-alone" practitioners are they not? So why do they need further input from Pods?

    To return to the query about treatment for fungal nails I would suggest you dig out your Foot Health course-notes and see what you were trained to use for this condition. I believe that that is what you are insured to use.
    If you want to use something different then I would check with your professional organisation/ insurer as to how you stand liability-wise if you deviate from what you were trained to do.
  40. Myself

    Myself Member

    I will ask a pods opinion and see them as a valuable resource...I am a stand alone FHP but also take continued professional development seriously and close links with my local pod helps with this. As I said, I respect all levels and believe we can all learn from one another.
    And yes, I work part time in my nursing job and part time as an FHP. I have good time management skills and great energy. Also a wife and mum.... I am good at multi tasking.
    My intention was not to draw comparisons between NHS and private sector but rather point out that people should respect one another irrespective of position/level/training background. I am lucky to have found pods that are willing to help develop my knowledge base. After all, a degree , diploma, course etc does not equip you for life.... It's about constant learning and development, moving with the times and providing evidence based care. So IMO... Working along side pods provides me with a great opportunity to continue developing my knowledge base whilst running a successful FHP business.... Win win :)

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