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College of Podiatry call for urgent action to tackle falling numbers of podiatry students

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by NewsBot, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

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    Press Release:
    Council of Deans of Health and the College of Podiatry call for urgent action to tackle falling numbers of podiatry students
    18 February 2019
    The Council of Deans of Health and the College of Podiatry have called for urgent action to tackle declining numbers of podiatry students. This follows a joint meeting of representatives from across the profession, universities and the Council on 12 February in London which looked at recruitment challenges including the 49% decline in student numbers across the south and the overall decline of 23% since the comprehensive spending review. The meeting explored a number of solutions and concluded that decisive, urgent action needed to be taken.

    The Council and the College are therefore calling for the introduction of a maintenance grant for healthcare students and full payment of tuition fees for podiatry students in England. In return the graduate would work for NHS service post-qualification. Such a scheme would guarantee the future workforce which is vital to a sustainable and cost-effective NHS.

    Professor Brian Webster-Henderson, Chair of the Council of Deans of Health, said:

    “Universities in England have worked hard to recruit to podiatry courses but are really struggling to fill places. Student numbers have fallen two years running and appear to be faring worse than any other healthcare profession. The Council is supporting existing recruitment efforts by the Office for Students, the College of Podiatry and the NHS but it is clear that more needs to be done to support school leavers and mature students to study Podiatry. Both the Council and College of Podiatry are in full agreement that additional support is required to encourage students to enter this rewarding profession.”

    George Dunn, Chairman of the College of Podiatry, said:

    “Podiatry has been hit particularly hard by the 2017 reforms to healthcare education funding primarily because of the high proportion of mature students traditionally entering this profession. The knock-on effect for the podiatry workforce supply pipeline is very serious and will undermine the NHS’ ability to provide care in line with its Long Term Plan. The NHS podiatry profession is at the heart of preventative care within community health services, particularly for the increasing number of patients with diabetes, musculoskeletal and rheumatological conditions.

    “The number of podiatrists working for the NHS in England has already declined sharply over the past decade. New financial support for podiatry students in return for service, alongside concerted recruitment campaigns, could help to attract students and retain newly qualified professionals. Without such measures we are likely to see a critical impact on patient safety and a reduction in preventative footcare.”

    3.7m people in the UK have been diagnosed with diabetes, this is predicted to rise to over 5 million by 2025. Based on this figure 1.2 million (24%) of these people will require regular podiatry appointments to ensure they remain ulcer and amputation free. The NHS in England currently spends £1 billion per year on diabetic foot complications.[ii] Approximately 6,000 people with diabetes have leg, foot or toe amputation each year in England, with the correct and timely care 80% of these amputations could be prevented.
     
  2. joannapod

    joannapod Welcome New Poster

    Over worked and underpaid..no wonder numbers have fallen. Who in their right minds would get themselves into thousands of pounds worth of debt? I'm glad to see that additional support is going to be given to future students now the penny has dropped that the diabetic foot crisis is upon us. Shame we are hidden in the broom closet.
     
  3. AH29

    AH29 Active Member

    It's clear that the current degree programme is unsustainable. The future of podiatry training is apprenticeships, where employers subsidise and have a stake in the training of the employee. Because there are simply not enough opportunities out there for graduates after they complete the degree unless they are going to do private practice.
     
  4. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    But even in private practice problems with the rise in foot heath practitioner has reduced the core patient base.
    Along with scotland making the degree 4 years (proberly financial) i think the HCPC have a role in protecting the foot health profession
     
  5. Gary Parsons

    Gary Parsons Welcome New Poster

    Dear all, I have just registered on this site to try and get some genuine assistance as to how to progress my increasing desire for this type of healthcare.

    I am already registered with HCPC as a Senior Operating Department Practitioner Anaesthetics Surgery and Recovery, I have spent around fifteen years of my career working in major centres such as Alderhey Children’s And Manchester Childrens, and would very much like to specialise in both Adult and Paediatric Podiatry. I am myself Diabetic and have some minor foot problems, which has spurred me on to see if my current career and registration helps in anyway at all to working toward being a podiatrist.

    I live and work in Cumbria but would very much like to hear from anyone who can steer me in the right direction

    Many thanks in advance

    Gary
     
  6. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    no help whatsoever you would have to go to uni 3 years full time just like anybody else . you cant work your way towards being a pod u just need a pod degree
     
  7. AndyBru

    AndyBru Member

    With the funding removed and the numbers dropping who want to be Pods, is that a bad thing. Could you say that the Pods going to university now are the people we want. Someone whos committed rather than its a free degree. Just a suggestion.
     
  8. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    University and the real world a bit diffrent
     
  9. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't agree with the first part of your post.
    There will always be thoe patients who want a comprehensive service provided by someone who has a tertiary level of education.

    The HCPC have made it clear that they have no plans to regulate FHPs.
     
  10. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    the core pt base has never been stronger the nhs are shedding hundreds of thousands of patients all we need do is scoop them up and count the dosh
     
  11. Johnpod

    Johnpod Active Member

    A level4 Diploma Course delivered properly is tertiary education.

    FHPs have made it clear that they have no wish to be regulated by the HCPC.

    Withdrawal of the NHS bursary has shown podiatry to be what it is (was) -a free degree.

    Universities have lost an income stream. How quickly they are brought to the table when their income is threatened, only to demand that the money be found from some other source (the tax-payer).

    No prospective student is going to invest £27,000 plus and three years to end up doing what an FHP does.

    'There will always be thoe {sic} patients who want a comprehensive service provided by someone who has a tertiary level of education' - they can have this from an FHP.

    'the core pt base has never been stronger the nhs are shedding hundreds of thousands of patients' - Fishpod is only stating what we all know to be true.
     
  12. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    "There will always be thoe {sic} patients who want a comprehensive service provided by someone who has a tertiary level of education' - they can have this from an FHP"

    No they can't because it won't be a comprehensive service. That can only be provided by a Pod.

    A level 4 Diploma Course may be technically 'tertiary level' but is only equivalent to Year 1 of a Batchelor Degree

    "'the core pt base has never been stronger the nhs are shedding hundreds of thousands of patients' - Fishpod is only stating what we all know to be true. "

    And many end up with Pods because they are fed up with their foot health issues not being addressed adequately by FHPs.
     
  13. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    Correct I am a pod fhps do,not provide a comprehensive service pods in pp should mop,up these patients I saw evidence of foot washing last week it is laughable our profession is in flux has issues but 10 million fhps turned out by mercenaries who only love money is not the answer to our problems or the patients needs
     
  14. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    I could not agree more.

    Anyone who advocates that FHPs can provide the same comprehensive service as degree/diploma-trained pods is either seriously deluded or has a financial interest somewhere. I think that has been very clearly indicated in this thread....
     
  15. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    "Withdrawal of the NHS bursary has shown podiatry to be what it is (was) -a free degree."

    this is nonsense, the NHS bursary in no way fully covered the real cost of a Podiatry degree. Please stop spreading misinformation.
     
  16. AH29

    AH29 Active Member

    The fact is that it does not make sense to do a traditional podiatry degree anymore as the earning potential for most of the graduates does not justify the spend. The only model is local NHS Trust training pods in apprenticeships, with block release uni modules. The current style forces grads to relocate hundreds of miles for a 21k job which is bananas.
     
  17. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Has it ever been any different?

    When I qualified years ago it was easy to get a bog-standard position in the NHS, but if you wanted to progress your career you needed to relocate.

    I think this is in common with all NHS positions.

    What's wrong with Private Practice anyway? You can earn more, get greater job satisfaction instead of number-crunching for central government.
     
  18. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    Is it that easy to mop up patients from the nhs they will likly be low risk and not bothered who cuts the nails and corns.
    Seen a successful practice offering medi-pedi with nail painting is that common with hcpc pods?
     
  19. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    "Seen a successful practice offering medi-pedi with nail painting is that common with hcpc pods? "

    Hmmm, it depends how you categorise 'HCPC Pods' .

    There are those HCPC pods who did a low-level course ( distance-learning and then 2 weeks practical) and got onto the HCPC Register by a process know as 'grandparenting'.

    Then you have those who did a 3 year f/t degree or diploma.

    Usually those grandparented who have a lower-level skill set and haven't bother to upgrade it, may try to eek out a living doing the treatments you describe.

    Those HCPC pods who have POM qualifications, can do LA & nail surgery aren't going to waste their time doing beauty therapy type treatments. If we had wanted to be a beautician we would have done such a course.
    Who wants to paint nails for £20 an hour when you can do nail surgery for £200/300 a pop?

    Not to mention the client satisfaction from such procedures. :)
     
  20. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    To answer your first question;

    "Is it that easy to mop up patients from the nhs they will likly be low risk and not bothered who cuts the nails and corns. ?"

    Maybe not in the first instance, but when they realise that the footcare provider they have selected is waaaay out of their depth when problems arise, that's when they start questioning and looking around. Eventually word spreads that a pod is best equipped to deal with these problems.

    Then they realise that they haven't been seeing a pod after all....

    It takes time but eventually a comprehensive service wins out. Better client satisfaction and better treatment outcomes win/win all round.:)
     
  21. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    Also offering msk nail surgery shock wave therapy and lazer nail treatment along with medi pedicure.
    Why charge so much for nail surgery its only a 40 min slot? Thats 2 routine fees.
    Simple procedure cheep to do. Never understand why private pods charge so much for routine procedure?
     
  22. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    "Simple procedure cheep to do. Never understand why private pods charge so much for routine procedure? "

    Maybe because it isn't a 'routine procedure' that can take more than 40 mins ? Are you in PP, because if you were you wouldn't ask that question, because you would be aware of the costs involved?

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'lazer nail treatment' but from what I read on this forum it seems doesn't work.
     
  23. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    Used to, be what costs do you have?
     
  24. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    I'm puzzled by your questions.
    According to your post on 13th March this year you say you are retired because you couldn't make a living in PP.

    "Private practice never worked out for me could never get enough work. "

    So why all the questions about PP? If you've been in PP, albeit unsucessfully, you should kow what the costings are. Maybe that's why you failed because you just didn't charge enough?
     
  25. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    Mate, i have retired but do a little work agency ect most nhs and yes it was hard to get enough work in pp land to make it viable to continue.
    My question is solely out of intrest that was all.
    When i done pp the cost of nail surgery was low.
    For example scandonest box 21 pounds
    Depending on system used 27 gauge needles with dental syringe that you have to autoclave as you do your normal packs not expensive and phenol at most was 8 quid a bottle from DLT.
    Forgive me is all this costs much more now like you said i have been out of pp for some time.
    Try to be a little less aggressive in your responses -)
     
  26. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    [QUOTE="

    Try to be a little less aggressive in your responses -)[/QUOTE]

    And how about you trying to write in English?

    "When i done pp the cost of nail surgery was low. "

    "Forgive me is all this costs much more now like you said" - what does that mean?

    If you want to find out about todays costs why not visit a pod with a surgery?
     
  27. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    Mate your a dick
     
  28. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    I think you mean "you're a dick"

    I rest my case.
     
  29. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    Yep that as well :)
     
  30. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Podfhpchiro : "Yes it was hard to get enough work in pp land to make it viable to continue"
    Podfhpchiro: "Never understand why private pods charge so much for routine procedure?"

    - do you not see the problem here?

    Well, because my friend there are occult costs in running a private business - facility fees, rent, staff fees; student loans (especially interesting with toe curling amounts in America) , interest, consumable costs, and hey! the Podiatrist might even expect a few bucks for his skills, experience and labor.

    Not convinced yet? Maybe have a chat with your private dentist and ask that same question. Or ask a lawyer why he/she might charge $500 / hour (3 years training). Or ask a plumber why he wants ridiculous amounts of money just to come and take a look (call out fee) Or how about that car mechanic. Buddy it's only 'simple' with experience.

    Last week I had to take my ailing dog to the Vet. $650 for a simple XR (actual cost $20) and a blood test (actual cost $50) and with his best clinical judgment to have my dog euthanized. I paid my dues, and ignored his advice. She's doing ok.
     
  31. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    Yep have listened to that debate for years.
    Is it not time we sell?
    Msk assessment and orthotics take time and cost more money.
    Nail surgery is relatively quick.
    I have done over 300 of them so speaking with some knowledge of the subject.
    The longer it takes the bigger the cost.
    I have just looked at the cost of nail surgery stuff and is still quite cheap
    Hello to "grammar dick" and apologies for taking the conversation off topic.
     
  32. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    IMHO, no it's not time we sell. Over the years the time factor required for me to provide a 'service' has reduced exponentially, as my skills have improved. e.g. hallux valgus surgical correction etc etc. If a patient pays out-of-pocket they are paying for my skills and experience. I am much less concerned with the time this requires. A less competent clinician might take three times longer to achieve a poorer outcome.

    Also, you are sidestepping the wider issue of costs incurred in today's world, to make a Podiatry business a viable proposition. If anything, I always felt Podiatrists are guilty of selling their services too cheaply. This is especially true in the UK, where well trained clinical staff face unfair competition from the unregulated sector. Alas, it seems that is set to never change. For that reason, it is not surprising the profession is failing to attract new students.
     
  33. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    The time issue is a factor in the provision of nhs podiatry for example 15 - 20 min slots for routine such as nails and soft tissue lesions.
    30-40 min for new patients and assessments.
    40 min for nail procedures and so on.
    In private practice the times may be longer to allow for foot massage cream and such like.
    I don't know the time factors in more advanced surgical procedurs but i am sure you list for the day is around how long the procedures will take and how to best use time effectively.

    Costs for things like insurence and HCPC membership are redeemed against tax and are the same for those in the NHS and Private limited company's can provide a way to claim many expensis back.
    I have no idea about the costings in the USA.
    So my point about costs and time are that if a treatment is 40 min that's 2 sessions and will cast x amount.
    Not xxx amount because it just happens to be nail procedure.
     
  34. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Well I guess we must agree to disagree. ;)

    As an aside, in the US, I get a 15 minute time slot for nail surgery, and of that 15 minutes the Medical Assistant will be with that patient for 5-10 minutes before I get hands on. 40 minutes would be perfectly ridiculous.So, by your reckoning, Podiatry should expect no more for that service than a routine nail clipping, right? I think not.

    But this is comparing apples with oranges; the majority of payment in the US is through insurance, not NHS or out-of-pocket.
     
  35. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    Hi yep we seem to work very differently.
    Fastest i have ever done a single nail surgery is 7 min that is not including the LA and dressing.
    Don't think i could do the lot in under 30 min with the paperwork.
    But yes if you had a patient needing drill work and thick OG nails with say PAD and pain it would take longer.
    Thank for your opinion appreciate your view.
     
  36. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    pod fhpchiro you seem to be totally ignorant of how private practice works on any continent, you have no grasp of taxation in self employment you cannot spell . I know my grammar is terrible so appologies for la
    ck of capitals etc. we do not work as hourly paid shop assistants . Podiatry is simple ill explain the higher your charge the greater the number of patients seen the higher your annual returns , if you can achieve low overheads as well very happy days. It comes as no surprise that you failed in the venture of private practice ps time is irrelevant its the figure at the end of a working day that's relevant.
     
  37. Podfhpchiro

    Podfhpchiro Member

    Haha your so funny.
    Mabe you should go on Britons got talent as a self absorbed tosser.

    Look i dont know how you run your practice (badly by the sounds of it)
    It is just an opinion.
    As for the spelling it is proberly due to been pissed, as thats the only time i can stomach this website full of twats like you mate.
     
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