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Difficulty with measuring feet/footwear

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by magda66, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. magda66

    magda66 Active Member

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    today i've seen a 68yr old chef with the most trashed orthotics i've ever seen but he says they're comfortable. presented for tx of hds.
    i measured his feet with brannock device and according to that his shoes are euro 44 (uk 9.5-10 depending on where i look) his current shoes are too small. then i went to a db catalogue (these are what he currently wears) he wears size 8(4e) and so measured his feet on their pull-out chart........that makes him size 7 (4e).

    now i understand that footwear manufacturers vary in size but is by this much common or unusual in your experience? what should i do? just measure patients' feet and let them off with the details to purchase? i'm concerned about giving them a size that may be wrong depending on the manufacturer.
    i happened to have a quiet morning and he wasn't in a hurry but ordinarily i would't have the time look at patient footwear so in depth. what to do?
  2. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    HI Magda66

    See this thread which talks about my opinion on shoe measuring


    There will be other links on there that take you to other threads

    With respect to DB shoes, they are always made a little on the large side and some people do require a slightly smaller size than they would normally take

    I think you make a mistake telling people what their shoe size is for the reasons in the above listed thread.

    The information that they require is
    1. What you need from their footwear in order to fulfill your treatment plan
    2. Some examples of the "type" of footwear that has these qualities
    3. An idea of where they may be able to purchase said footwear, potentially in varying brackets for cost
    4. Information on why the construction of the shoe is important.

    As time consuming and repetitive as it is, I try to educate my patients to think about what their footwear must have and why, not the size and brand that they should buy. Patients seem obsessed with the fact that they have spent a lot of money on "good shoes" which means very little if they don't fit.

    Which raises the question of what is the correct fit? It's like asking, what is a "normal" amount of pronation?

    I give people an idea of a type of shoe to get that will be compatible with their orthoses. I tell them to make sure they are an OK fit and that they are returnable and not to wear them before they come into clinic. That way, if the footwear is unsuitable or the sizes are not quite right or the footwear/orthosis combination is not compatible, I at least have a benchmark for that particular brand of shoe and further advice is significantly more simple. The patient can return the shoes and buy something more suitable with confidcence.

    Hope this helps

  3. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    There are two fitting to a shoe, the physical and the psychological, sadly the later has more power on the day of purchase.:bang:

    If in doubt pull the full length footbed out of the shoe and ask the client to stand up on the foot bed, this will allow you to point out some of the issues, dont forget as a shoe flexes it will be shorter than when the client stands flat.

    My advise is build a relationship with a couple of qualified shoe fitting stores where the staff are trained, work with them, if you dont like something they have done, wrong in your mind, talk to them, no person is perfect....well there cant be two of us (humor)

    Get in touch with your local Pedorthist, find out where they are and buy yourself a "visumeter" you can measure the shoes internal and the foot
  4. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    I couldn't agree more :good:

    They don't have them over here, I am assuming Magda66 is in Ireland. Best you might get is an old fashioned shoe shop with someone who has been fitting shoes for years and they are in the decline(the shoe shops, not the person, although that usually is the case!)

    Most shoe shops these days have some halfwit teenager who can barely string a sentence together, let alone actually measure and fit a pair of shoes.

  5. gaittec

    gaittec Active Member

    People often ask me to tell them what size they should buy. In the absence of a qualified shoe fitter such as a Certified Pedorthist, I tell them what to look for in arch fit, width, toe room, and I avoid giving them a size.

    I tell them "Sizes are only numbers. Ask for a fit." Corny, but they remember.
  6. docbourke

    docbourke Active Member

    Have the person stand on a piece of paper and trace around the foot. Tell them to take it to the shop and only buy the shoe if it completely covers the outline of their foot. Most women are very unhappy when you put the shoe they came in with over the tracing.
  7. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    Yes l know slow reply....

    docbourke this a nice theory but... l have a couple of issues with this.

    Firstly everyone reading, can they slip their shoes of and take a tracing of the foot and see if it works please???????if you have work/hiking boots you will be okay, runners on you might be okay, if you have formal type shoes you may well fail

    90% or greater of women will fail and about 90% of men will pass, nothing to do with anything else other than the materials/profile of mens V womens footwear.

    Take the two in the pic below as a sample

    The mens footwear is made from 1.9mm leather + .9mm lining then add the profile of the sole that extends away from the upper about 8mm, thats a total of the shoe tracing V foot tracing 21.6mm

    The ladies shoe is made from 1.1mm leather + .9mm lining and the sole is trimmed level with the wall of the upper to keep the profile elegant, thats a total of the shoe tracing V the foot tracing 4mm

    Best bet is to be fitted;)

    Attached Files:

  8. Con

    Con Member

    The styles of shoes will differ as well between the sexes. Men's shoes, particularly runners or hiking boots, are generally more comfortable than the female equivalent for a sizeable number of women, because they're wider for the same length. Lots of women will wear a pair of men's shoes out (if it's not obvious from the style) or in (if it is).

    It gets worse for any kind of stylish shoe, or shoe not meant for exercise. One of the reasons I hated shoe shopping as a child was they were generally too narrow or just plain awful (no support, not foot shaped etc) unless you went for the 'granny' styles.
  9. docbourke

    docbourke Active Member

    Is it a coincidence that 90% of women's shoes are too tight and they form over 2/3 of my patient population for forefoot problems such as bunions, claw toes etc ?
    Women's shoes have kept me in clover for many years but it doesn't mean we shouldn't still recommend what is best for the long term care of their feet.
  10. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    Sorry, are you saying tight shoes are the cause of bunions??????

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