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I seriously hope that this is not "our" Ben Hurr

Discussion in 'Break Room' started by Rob Kidd, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

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    For non-Australians, today is Australia day, and is to many people is a day of reconciliation. The sad part from the indigenous population, it is a day of sorry - a day of invasion by the UK in 1788. Our Australian of the year is Adam Goodes - a footie player of huge renown. I make no secret of the fact I do not follow sport - but am very patriotic, and love our talented Sports persons. Goodesy is indigenous, and from time to time gets **** thrown at him by people that should know better. The point in question was a 13 yo girl at a recent footie match that screamed "Ape" at him. He was appalled, stopped the game, pointed out to security who the girl was, and she was removed from the ground.

    This of course hit our press; in one of the columns I found this, as one of the replies from the public.
    Comments on this story
    • Read all 62 comments
    • Ben Hurr Posted at 11:25 AM May 26, 2013
    Oh Grow up man, fancy being affected by a 13 year old's comment. Hope you don't have to go to war at any stage, you will be crying in the dugout.


    On my shelf are several books about Gallipoli, most written my my academic colleague Dr David Cameron, well recognised expert on the said conflict. I have some doubts that this Ben Hurr has ever been in a dug out - but then - neither have I. But I do try to read about them as the past is clearly the key to the present. I have attached the most harrowing picture I could find of a dug out (trench) at The Somme. This was the Irish Rifles. They were all dead 30 minutes later. Ben Hurr, who ever this may have been, you should be ashamed of yourself.

    Now this Ben Hurr may well not be the Ben Hurr that is known to Arena - I sincerely hope not. Podiatry does not need any variety of racial vilification.

    Happy Australia Day, Rob

    Attached Files:

  2. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Just so happened to click on Pod Arena for some odd reason (or maybe there was a reason after all) on this Australia Day... to then have to see the above present.

    In short... NO, it is not me Mr Kidd ! I would suggest to you that the alias of "Ben-Hur" is a popular name on the internet (as is the movie/book). There is a whole lot more I could say regarding your apparent attempt (wish) to vilify me in some shape or form (noted by the fact that you would post such a thread with me being the subject). Maybe there are other avenues to ask such a question other than the above tactic (on a public forum): What would you hope to achieve? Why would you do it? Anyway, I'll leave it at that.

    I suggest you delete this thread/post for the sake of your own standing (or maybe a moderator can do it for you... for the sake of the integrity of this forum). Go outside & enjoy the day (& tomorrow's public holiday)... instead of trying to vent some issue in such manner. Have a nice day!

    Oh yea... my father served in the Royal Air Force (U.K) & Royal Australian Air Force (for about 40 years); grandfather served in WW11; great grandfather served in WW1... & received a medal & personal letter from King George V for his services (I/my family know a wee bit about war).

    I have no interest in AFL (or whatever the football code is)!

    Happy Australia Day!
  3. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Just one other point Mr Kidd... which you probably made no connection to.

    The young girl in question screamed out a derogatory term... with evolutionary connotations.

    Why would I be supportive of such actions when you of all people know my views on the bankrupt (pseudoscientific), illogical, debasing (why the football player was hurt by the term) philosophy of evolution. Particularly when I have provided ample evidence contrary to the pseudoscientific premise that humans share primate ancestry (i.e. via paleontology, genetics)... as well as the many other avenues that evolution has infected... of which I have drilled you on multiple times... of which you have failed to provide answers to.

    Isn't it ironic that the repercussions of evolution have raised its ugly head (yet again) in the content of your post (derogatory/evolutionary inspired name calling) as well as the probable underlying reasons/issues (i.e. your failed debate history on evolution) on why you would post such a thread.

    Now I'm late for my surf (now that's a sport... as is athletics/running).

    *** One other point I have just noted: the culprit going by "Ben Hurr"... spelt the name incorrectly (I don't make such mistakes - unlike some I know)... the name should be spelt: Ben-Hur (see here - Ben-Hur). In fact this issue is becoming more & more curious to me... hmmm, I'll look into it!
  4. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    "For non-Australians, today is Australia day, and is to many people is a day of reconciliation. The sad part from the indigenous population, it is a day of sorry - a day of invasion by the UK in 1788."

    Oh come on - this is surely racial abuse per se but presumably as it is directed at Pommies (racial term that) you find it perfectly acceptable! In point of fact, I don't mind that (see signature below) but have no sympathy with racial abuse generally, nor abuse to others when facts are not known. To use the excellent Aussie expression, 'Dry yer eyes', celebrate the Ashes (we won the last limited overs game!) and enjoy Australia day with a slab or two.


    Pommie Bastard Bill
  5. I do hope you have an opportunity to watch 'Utopia" - John Pilger's latest film, Bill. It may very will change your view of what was done to the indigenous population of Australia in our name by our government(s) over the years. http://johnpilger.com

  6. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    I am a historian Mark. That means reading and listening to the facts of history, as far as they are available and reaching an unbiased and objective conclusion. Although not my specific period, basically, the indigenous population of Australia were often very badly treated, largely by 'new' Australians rather than the British but no more so than others in that era of colonisation when the lash and hanging were common forms of punishment in the UK, as elsewhere.

    I suggest that you read, for instance, 'The Fatal Shore' rather than accepting uncritically the reports of the like of John Pilger, who always has a hidden agenda and, I believe enjoys making the likes of yourself beat your breasts when you can do nothing to affect what was. He makes a great deal of money by selling morbid emotion. I would also be grateful if you would read my posts prior to reacting viz. " but (I) have no sympathy with racial abuse generally, nor abuse to others when facts are not known. " Nor do your remarks reflect the point made by the OP and the riposte. Sorry, but I'm a little too busy to get into a drawn out discussion on these points.

    All the best

  7. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

    Mathew - I am delighted that it was not you. Rob
  8. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    A patient once told me he had worked in the Channel Country in south-western Queensland in the 30's. One night they camped near a small hillock. Apparently it was the grave site for Aboriginal people killed "20 years before". He then explained that they had been killed by horsemen riding them down and using the stirrup iron to the back of the head, swinging it on the stirrup leather. I uttered how disgusting that was and he said "No, they were competing with the cattle for the water" I must have repeated how disgusting I thought the act was and he continued, " they didn't want to waste bullets"
  9. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

    While I do not claim to be a historian - I do have a deep interest in history. what history tells us, may be largely summarised under two thought processes. 1) nothing ever changes, and 2), in this context more important, is that it is written by the winners.

    The history of Australia was written by the winners. Rob
  10. A task that is currently outsourced to Hollywood and much of the national media. http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-war-you-dont-see Off to beat my chest again...:bang:
  11. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

    I have looked at your source, and yes, I agree with it. However, Mark, there is nothing new in my comment that history is written by the winners. One of my recent colleagues, Professor of Nano tech in Sydney, was head of Nano Tech in some part of Japan for years. He was horrified to find that his Japanese colleagues had not even the vaguest notion of Japanese war crimes; it simply was not in their history books.
  12. As has been pointed out - establishing fact from fiction and propaganda becomes more difficult the longer time passes, Bill. Certainly the indigenous population of Australia suffered atrociously at the hands and whips of the 'new' Australians. But you miss the point - they were British mostly - and a fair few of them convicts of the worst kind. Our inglorious history is littered with colonial imperialism which gave little regard for the rights or wishes of indigenous populations anywhere. South Africa, Daigo Garcia, Ireland, Palestine. It's not a British disease - it's a by-product of empire building, which is the real lesson in history for it always leads to its demise. Thankfully - the likes of Pilger and other writers before him will always strive to bring the unadulterated facts for our consideration. Certainly you can't change history. But we should always strive to ensure it has been told truthfully.
  13. Phil3600

    Phil3600 Active Member

    I would like to point something out about the photo. I too found it on Google and in places it does say this was a unit waiting to go-over-the-top during the Somme campaign. I’ll contest that. The Battle of the Somme was the darkest day in the history of British Army where we lost 20,000 in one day and 9000 within the first hour. And that figure is killed in action not wounded. But these guys are not about to go-over-the-top and I would be very surprised if they were dead within 30-minutes (unless hit by shell fire which was the biggest killer in WWI).

    This trench is not a firing trench (front line trench) it is most likely to be a communication trench. It is isn't dug in a zig-zag shape (to minimise the effect of artillery rounds), there are no ladders or firing step.

    The soldiers are not "bombed-up" i.e. they have minimal amount of weapons and ammo. There is not one of them carrying Vicker's machine guns in the entire section and they have no webbing on.

    If they were a reserve unit they would be "stood-to" i.e. alert and ready for a counter attack.

    There is a belief that units were eager to join the battle and raring to go for King and country but this is actually a myth. If you read accounts of soldiers who were on the front line prior to an attack the mood was very fearful (as you would expect). And if these men were a reserve unit waiting in a communication trench for their turn they would have seen the wounded coming back to the aid station, they would have heard the noise of battle. These guys are far too relaxed. Think the end of Gallipoli...

    Just saying. I’m not a historian but I’m fairly well read in military history.
  14. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Thanks Phil, for a rational analysis. I too had noted that the soldiers pictured did not have bayonets fixed and were not in a front line trench. However, persuasive hyperbole and excessive dramatics by journalists (some of whom are proven liars) always seem to sway people more than facts. It is a pity that this occurs here, where it is supposed that we all have a scientific background.

    All the best

    Bill Liggins
  15. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

    I take your points, all. I have had that picture in my collection for many years - long before google and the net. The first (complete) soldier from the left is labelled "Private Bailey" in the copy that I have had since perhaps 1972. I have never much looked at the type of trench - and you may well be right. I simply read the caption, re: being dead 30 minutes later. Dad was a fairly serious WW1 historian, and in my childhood dragged me around Verdun, Vimy (Dad lived in Canada during WW2) and others. It may have been the bone room at (I think) Verdun that set on the road to being an anatomist - those were the ones that could not be identified. I gather that there was fuss recently in the UK press re: certain politicians producing a rather one-sided view of the 14-18 conflict; it certainly must have been embarrassing at the time - the Kaiser and George V being 1st cousins.
  16. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Hi Rob

    Just another instance of the media quoting out of context and blowing things out of proportion - and that is the opinion of the television journalist who was involved in the interview. History is littered with examples of Kings and nobles at war with their close relatives, but I tend to think of the Wars of The Roses (my period), the English Civil War, The American Civil War and numerous other engagements when brother fought brother and son fought father. These were all very savage and dismal affairs.

    Re: the soldiers pictured; maybe as Phil suggested, they were hit by shellfire.

    All the best

  17. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Now this Ben Hurr may well not be the Ben Hurr that is known to Arena - I sincerely hope not. Podiatry does not need any variety of racial vilification.

    NO, no, no but I think this might be our Ben Hor?


  18. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    No. I take that back. I'm certain I've identified him this time.


    A little bit of online detective work and problem solved. Easy really.

  19. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    OK mock if you must.

    Maybe I didn't quite get it right last time but this time I'm certain that I've found him. This one's in Australia so it must be him?


    It's just amazing how things come right in the end.

  20. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Let's put this to bed once and for all.

    I've pinned him down this time.

    de bonne heure : définition et synonymes du mot de ... - L'Internaute


    You've got to get up early in the morning to catch me out!


    PS Note the oblique reference to Homer Simpson.
  21. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Thank you Mr Kidd - albeit, no one could blame me for having some degree of reservations on the sincerity of the above comment. I'm sure you would agree Mr Kidd that we haven't had a rosy relationship on this forum - primarily as the result of our involvement on one topic - the contentious subject of "Origins" i.e. the legitimacy of evolution (which has sprung up time to time on various threads). As I asked earlier, why would you post a thread with me the subject on what is clearly vague association to a statement made by a "Ben Hurr" (I admit somewhat similar to "Ben-Hur") on a sports news site... & what were you hoping to achieve in doing so on a professional public forum such as this. Vilify me by any chance? One would think that if you were sincerely concerned about such conduct by a colleague you would address the issue in a more private manner - despite the vague association & unrelated connection with the profession of Podiatry (however, there is now a connection to Podiatry via a Google search as a result of this thread :mad:).
    I certainly agree... & we should also be wary of any variety of character vilification/assassination (i.e. Ad hominem attacks) amongst colleagues... with a differing point of view - Podiatry & this forum can do without this as well. I realise that this can be a fine line at times... but when one notices something like the following (here - in another thread) written just 2 - 3 days earlier... then this thread pops up... one can quite rightly be left wondering on the nature of the underlying intentions... & could there be a connection...
    Not that I am theoretically a "Creationist" (as I'm Agnostic) but I do subscribe to Intelligent Design & do refute the legitimacy of evolution (for good reason as highlighted many times)... of which I have no intentions turning this thread down this path.

    The thread (your post) still stands - fair enough... but it does leave one open to wondering of its true underlying purpose/intentions in light of the above history. Speaking of history... there has at least been an interesting history discussion on trench warfare.

    Getting back to the original issue... people should also be mindful of the welfare of the 13 year old girl who made the comments (particularly at the time & the days following). Yes, 13 years old - & whilst they were inappropriate to say the least... she was very young (not a mature sportsperson)... a 13 year old girl subjected no doubt to a debasing worldview (evolution)... thrown in the public spotlight in a threatening/judgemental manner. Whilst I'm no child psychoanalyst, I am aware that young teenagers have a tendency to shout out (derogatory) names... without second thought. Unfortunately also, I hear that sports persons playing at "national level" (& lower) in such sports as football (all codes), cricket & other team sports (which attract fervent team following) are subjected to name calling from the crowd on a regular basis... some would say this is part of the sport... unfortunately the nature of our times.

    Anyway Rob, I will choose to accept the above cited comments as sincere... & wish you all the best.
  22. Beautiful. Made me cry..

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