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The painful truth about trainers: Are running shoes a waste of money?

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Graham, May 28, 2009.

  1. Graham

    Graham RIP

  2. MR NAKE

    MR NAKE Active Member

    no they are not, not unless if they are wrong ones, 3/4 of most cases when injuries presented in my biomechanics clinic pts were using antipronating running shoes yet they had almost close to normal foot and to make matters worse they had orthotics in those shoes what a mess, the probhlem begins with wrong diagnosis of patients (in most cases by podiatric clinicians), and sales assistants who have no clue about their running shoes what the difference between antipronating/nuetral/crosstrainer/court/ squash court surgace marking non surface marking and synthetic/non synthetic .allergic material and non and breathing materials and milleages and all sorts so you see its not just as easy as walking into a shop and just buyying and running you might pay heavily if yu are not well informed. running shoes are only a waste of money if bought without infomed knowledge :D
  3. Mr. Nake:

    I think you should have included a few more thoughts into your first sentence before a period was inserted.:rolleyes:

    My seventh grade English teacher would be rolling over in her grave if she were to read some of the stuff that is written here on Podiatry Arena.:craig::bash:
  4. :D Even Alison laughed at that one ;)
  5. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Kevin, Simon & others:



    the act of ridiculing : derision, mockery - Bad educational experience


    inspirit, hearten, embolden mean to fill with courage or strength of purpose. encourage suggests the raising of one's confidence especially by an external agency - Good educational experience

  6. Graham

    Graham RIP


    A sense of humour is often dificult to get across through this type of forum, don't you think? We do not all "know" each other and it seems it is human nature to perceive things in a different way than they were meant.

    Just a thought.

  7. Graham:

    I always performed better for the teachers and coaches who didn't cut me any slack and told it like it was. I didn't like it initially, but it made me perform better over the long haul.

    My comments on Podiatry Arena are not about me trying to win any sort of popularity contest. There are done to improve the content of this international professional medical educational forum and also to make better contributors out of those who want to display their thoughts on this forum for the thousands who visit this site weekly from around the world.

    I stand by what I said.
  8. Graham

    Graham RIP


    Not all are as confident and hard skinned as yourself. Derision tends to stifle comment. Constructive critisism is all in the wording and can attain the same message without the perceived ridicule.

    Education Vs indoctrination

    Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such it is used pejoratively. Instruction in the basic principles of science, in particular, can not properly be called indoctrination, in the sense that the fundamental principles of science call for critical self-evaluation and sceptical scrutiny of one's own ideas.

  9. Graham:

    Interesting idea. Maybe when I get so fed up of the poor postings here on Podiatry Arena that I leave the site permanently, then you can use your ideas more freely about how it is best to educate those that you feel need educating.
  10. Graham

    Graham RIP


    Your theoretical postings are brilliant, insightful, and definately educational. Some of your replies, however, can be percieved as ridicule and negative critisism, and could be considered as "poor" accademically as those that are "poor" gramatically.

    I'm sure some members have become so fed up with this approach that they leave the the site permanently. This is a shame, as it would be a shame to loose such an eminent contributer as you Kevin.

    We need to encourage contibutions and discussion. We need to suggest improvements and constructively educate on the necessity for good gramatical as well as good scientific construction. This will only be good for the profession as a whole and the way that we are perceived in the broader scientific community.

    Perhaps ;-)!
  11. thanx graham for ur thowts un this matter sence itt seams that eye shuldent cumplane win summwon hoo is a collej eddukated health proffesionel jest simply cant make the efurt tu right in plane inglissh with currect gramer and punxuaction and spelllingg, it just duznt seam write furme to discrimminnatte agenst theez peeple, win awl tha wannt isto communnikate to udder pudiatristes wut ison there mynd, and anudder thang witch gits mei gote iz thatt pudiatristes lyke myself thatt wahnt to improov pudiattry uhrena shulddnntt eaven cumplane cents it gitts themm onlee a lexur frum anudder pudiatrist onn hiz oppinions onde besstt metudd to edewkate udder pudiatrists
  12. markleigh

    markleigh Active Member

    I would have liked to have heard peoples opinions on this article. It appeared in our local paper, "The Advertiser" on Saturday 6th June, 2009. I was attending a Boot Camp run by Craig Payne & showed him the article. He told me the researcher mentioned had close connections with the barefoot running community through his company who promotes or sells products to barefoot runners.

    The first patient who I see this morning for an orthotic review questions me as to my views on the article. I explained firstly the potential bias in the article & also that the article is not supported by the vast majority of evidence. But I didn't have a good explanation about how 10,000 years ago we ran away from sabre tooth tigers, barefooted. And I gather we were OK at running away because I am here today. I assume running barefooted on soft terrain i.e. grass, soil etc as we did 10,000 years ago, placed much less strain on our bodies than now running on concrete. But is their further thought/evidence on the need for footwear/runners compared with running barefooted? I run 30km/week & can't imagine running barefooted but I know the barefoot running proponents are very fervent in their beliefs.
  13. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Se this thread on the research: Is your prescription of distance running shoes evidence based?
    Concrete was not invented back then.
  14. as Crai said concrete was not inveted yet..

    Also Human were a lot smaller and lighter .

    They also died a lot earlier and if I remember correctly when ever they find a frozen 10 000 year old remains they talk about signs of O/A in hips and other joints. So it seems they had problems but no one to complain too

    Michael Weber
  15. Graham

    Graham RIP


    Perhaps you would be interested in sharing your thoughts on the article! literally!

  16. Foot orthoses are much more effective at changing the kinematics and kinetics of running than are running shoes of different midsole constructions: "Data from the current sample of female runners indicate that the major component influencing the rearfoot dynamics was the custom orthoses, not the shoe." (MacLean CL, Davis IS, Hamill J: Influence of running shoe midsole construction and custom foot orthotic intervention on lower extremity dynamics during running. J Appl Biomech, 25:54-63, 2009.)
  17. MR NAKE

    MR NAKE Active Member


    i think you like to cross the line more often and its not funny at all actually its disrespectifull, how can i learn from an egocentric maniac like you. many times people have had issues with you, and if you dont correct your ways it will be your downfall, you are not invincible. just have simple manners and you will be respected more for that than to ridicule people maybe you should change it to kirbyrena and we will leave you alone with your so called golden ideas....great men are humble not idiots:butcher:
  18. MR NAKE

    MR NAKE Active Member

    not everyone can run with an orthotic in their shoes kevin, and besides you have led most of the demise of new so called current research papers which does not meet your criterion of approval eg, CT Band syndrome, i will have a look at this one....ha ha ha lol..why bother does it meet your approval???? before i waste my time :rolleyes:

    we have treated so many people with running injuries with these running shoes and we have seen the devastating effect of wrong shoes, anyway you know it all i wonder what we are doing here and as always whenever there is some one who thinks he is the star....hangers on will always be around...lol i think i dropped my spoon
  19. Mr. Nake:

    I will add you to my long list of people who don't like me, who think I'm an egocentric maniac (I rather like that label) and think I don't have good manners. Sorry that you took my criticism personally, but I fully expected that result as a consequence of trying to improve the professional appearance of Podiatry Arena for the thousands of lurkers who view this site on a weekly basis and who may judge the level of intelligence and education of the international podiatric medical profession solely from the quality of the writing contained within it.

    I was always taught that if you want to make positive change, you will be making both friends and enemies along the way. It seems that I have not made friends with you in my quest for a positive change in the content of Podiatry Arena. My hope is that the quality of postings on Podiatry Arena continues to improve since I want those who view the postings on this site to come away with the impression that the members of my profession are well-educated professionals that can communicate effectively with each other. That was my sole purpose for my critique of your posting. Thanks for your input and sorry I offended you.:drinks
  20. markleigh

    markleigh Active Member

    Sheesh people, settle down. Kevin doesn't need my support in this I know, but I want to give it. I am a Podiatrist who has benefited immensely from not only Kevin's posts but so many on this website. I'm not sucking up to Kevin. I have never met the man. But when very well respected Podiatrists (like Kevin, Craig etc) give their time FREELY (intentionally highlighted) to answer some of my very basic questions (& so many others), I appreciate them. They have earnt my respect. Yeh, sometimes they sound harsh when questioning but I think generally justified. C'mon - their here giving up their own time to help us.

    No offense to Craig but without his & Kevin & Simon's (& I could go on) input, this site would be of very little value. With them, this site to me is an absolute goldmine. Thanks to Kevin & others who have given their time & immense knowledge to this site.
  21. Thanks for the kind words, Mark. Next time we are at a seminar together, please introduce yourself to me. I'll likely be wearing my usual distinctive wardrobe.:rolleyes::drinks

    Attached Files:

  22. markleigh

    markleigh Active Member

    May the force be with you Kevin :drinks
  23. MR NAKE

    MR NAKE Active Member

    i cannot afford to hate you even if i try and i do agree with those that admittedly suck up to you, its natural affection towards talent, i cannot change that and i am inclined to it as well as a human being who is not a hater but a sensible person who appreciates talent however, this said i can afford not to accept unprofound, unproffessional ridicule as this is not the basis of our podiatry arena proffessional friendship.

    i agree with mark, you guys are doing a great job, but if you scare off the other participants what good of your talent will be left to be appreciated?????.
    surprisingly you did went on to give a simplistic answer which you could have done earlier on and probably we would not have to resort to reminding each orther that what keeps us together is greater than what can devide us.

    we are all academically gifted but the cases we deal with in clinics are not as intelligemnt as we are, so lets not forget the varying spectrums.......after all there is nothing new under the face of the sun, we are all good for nothing slaves what we are doing is what we aught to have done, the biggest vanity is all is vanity.....you are a great man and we will always respect you for that....apology accepted:drinks
  24. Lawrence Bevan

    Lawrence Bevan Active Member

    "MR NAKE"

    As far as I can see Kevin didn't really need to post that apology. Anybody that has been around on Podiatry Arena for a while can see the imput Kevin makes and can appreciate the time it must take to do so. I, for one, am also fed up with the questions that are posed a la - "my patients toe hurts pls tell me why?" often with poor grammar and almost always with little to no real information.

    Lately some clinical postings and questions have started to come forth in the form of a decent well structured case presentation which makes the whole process of understanding the problem much easier. This in itself is a change that really only came about through the persistance of Kevin, Simon, Robert, Eric, Craig, Lucky Lisfranc etc in getting other posters to contribute in more erudite postings.

    Whilst your comment was of a different nature your first sentence was one of 90 words with several mis-spellings! I would have to agree it was not easy to read - I almost didn't bother and wouldn't have until Kevin mentioned it. Which just goes to show he took the time to read it. You may be about to take your thoughts elsewhere or will if Kevin isn't nice to you but from my point of view if you don't take the time to write posts that make more sense it won't make much difference to me!

    Kevin has offered an apology but your gracious acceptance was still pretty poor grammar. We all know its "only the internet" but it is a public forum - supposedly an international medical one. You're not sending a sms text but something a patient, colleague, healthcare manager or healthcare purchaser could read. Read, re-read and read again your posts and if you're having difficulties - use a spell checker!!

  25. MR NAKE

    MR NAKE Active Member

    lawrence get a life, okay, first and foremost i did not post the so called stupid question, where were you not to answer that initial thread? my grammer is an issue for you, get lost, this is between me and kevin and his apology does not mean he is weak in any way. when some of us have a lot of things to do ..we do try to make an intelligent posting.....:craig:...to concentrate on spelling check at times takes a bit long, i do agree with you as kevin went on to type in a funny way to put the point across, i apologise to you then lawrence how is that? :rolleyes:
  26. OK, everybody, it is now time to talk about running shoes, not grammar and spelling and punctuation. I believe the point has been made. Enough said.

    I give advice to nearly every runner I see regarding their running shoes. Many patients I see with injuries may only need a change in running shoes to heal their injury. However, here in Sacramento, where there is a rather large and sophisticated running community, most of the runners I see have already spent hundreds of dollars on different shoes and over-the-counter orthoses to try to heal their injuries before they see me at my clinic.

    Having been a competetive runner myself long before I became a podiatrist (I ran my first marathon at age 17, finished as the first Junior in the race and won a pair of Tiger Onitsuka Jayhawks for finishing first in my age division ....... but that was 35 years ago), I know quite a bit about running shoes both as a competetive athlete and now as a sports podiatrist for 25 years.

    I see running shoes as being more expensive than I would like, but when compared to the equipment and fees required to participate in other sports, running is still one of the least expensive sports you can participate in. Therefore, are running shoes expensive, yes, but so are golf clubs, tennis rackets, soccer boots, and gym membership fees. However, one thing is very clear, the positive benefits that are gained from the physical and psychological benefits of running and exercise far outweigh the negative factor of buying an "expensive running shoe" every six months to allow us to continue exercising without injury.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2009
  27. Brett1501

    Brett1501 Member

    The purchase of running shoes is becoming quite expensive , particularly for the runner who does,t have advice from their podiatrist who is keeping abreast with the changes in each style of shoe. A particular style may be subject to a design change which alters the shoe function and is marketed as an improvement however, the change may be a problem to the regular wearer/buyer.
    It is good to see stores like Running Science and Active feet taking a more personalised approach to fitting footwear with the use of experienced and qualified staff with the aid of video/treadmill equipment.

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