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What do you say/ask/do?

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by LCBL, Oct 25, 2006.

  1. LCBL

    LCBL Active Member

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    A 'friend' of mine is attending an upcoming exhibition for runners at the Dublin Marathon this weekend. He noticed this crowd www.stepforwardireland.com will be exhibiting, and presumably selling their stuff. The parent company is, of course, the infamous www.stepforward.com from his thread.

    So, putting our collective heads together.....what kind of questions would you be asking these people.......
  2. how to heckle

    I love these websites. Made my laugh tea out of my nose. Diagnostics are so much easier when the affected area glows red like that! The orthotics clearly work as the foot isn't glowing in the "with" graphic. QED :D

    One of the product ranges comes in 17 sizes. That would, (i imagine) be two maybe three varieties per shoe size. If you describe this as "Custom fit" what would you describe as not custom fit?

    Get a pair of AOLs/VOLs/ your choice of £20 odd quids worth of arch supports from the chemist and ask them what the difference is. between this and their product.

    Get into an in depth conversation and just keep saying "so its really just an arch support init"

    Throw rocks and dung.

    Robert Isaacs
    Lead podiatrist and new father. Does the Screaming EVER STOP!?!?!?!?! :(
  3. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Hi Robert

    Having raised three kids the answer is, yes one day. Of course the B****r in all this is then when they have moved on you miss it :confused: You even miss the music, the clothes all over the place, the patting on your head because they understand that you are only a dad with no real earthly experience etc etc.

    The real insanity of course is to start another one!!

  4. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member


    Just when you begin to think that things improve then a day like today comes along -the MMR jab.

    pass me the aspirin!

    Good luck, its worth it.
  5. Dave,
    I'd start with an easy one and ask how they work. Then when they have given their answer, I would ask:

    So how does this relate to:
    A. Subtalar axis location and rotational equilibrium theory / tissue stress
    B. Preferred motion pathway theory
    C. Sagittal plane facilitation theory
    D. Subtalar neutral theory

    Then tell them that you have had better laughs at a road traffic accident, call them a snake oil salesman and hand them a copy of the poster Kevin posted in a previous snake oil thread.
  6. LCBL

    LCBL Active Member

    Thanks for the suggestions (and the parental advice ;) ). Should be an interesting weekend with both me and fellow new poster deco in attendance. Deco will be 'undercover' so we'll get them on all angles.
  7. I've thought of a better thing to ask them:

    "Are you related to Ed Glaser or Brian Rothbart?"
  8. Simon:

    Now don't you think that is going a little too far, Simon, putting Brian in the same category as Ed?? I think Brian deserves better! :rolleyes:
  9. I try to avoid people and companies like this since I find them to be very similar to a few invidividuals who visit this website. These individuals have a financial interest in a product, give "infomercial" lectures to anyone who will listen to them, and think they know everything about orthoses, but are totally clueless. It is pointless to argue with these people since there minds are so totally focused on their own product and how superior it must be to other products (probably because they "invented it")that they lack the objectivity to carry on intelligent conversation. They totally ignore comments and ideas that show that their ideas are wrong.

    Here is how to detect these snakeoil salesmen in today's complex marketplace:

    1. Their claims of success and product progress are loudly advertised but their treatment failures are never admitted to.
    2. They have webpages or advertisements with only glowing testimonials about their product.
    3. Their reasoning for explaining their product's superior results is often times contrary to logic and does not stand up to academic scrutiny.
    4. They have not had any papers showing the superiority of their product published in peer-reviewed journals.
    5. They make lots of money on their product.
    6. They fund research as long as it will "prove" their product is superior.

    Personally, Dave, you can try to have some "fun" with these individuals by confronting them. However, as for me, I find it much more satisfying to work behind the scenes to make sure that their hair-brained ideas never get positive exposure within the podiatric profession.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2006
  10. confrontation

    It's true you won't ever make them see the error of their ways, but you can have a lot of fun trying! I suppose covert filming / recording is out of the question? You tube is a wonderful resource!

    And i've got to disagree with Kevin about the benifit of denying these ideas exposure of any description! Surely it must be better to have these things out in the open where right minded people can see them for what they are rather than operating in the dark where we do not know about them! You kill lies with the truth, not by surpressing them (and a wonderful job you do of that Mr Kirby).

    As for Brian and Ed, whilst i think their claims sometimes border on the absurb and their enthusiasm for shameless self promotion can be tiresome it must be remembered that at least they have the guts to come and argue in the big playground. That for me puts them several notches up from the unscrupulous crooks selling £20 pre fabs for £300 to poor sods who did'nt know they had a problem before the salesmen got to them.

    I think using forums like this to let our community know of the B*****S abusing our profession is a very healthy thing!

    PS Re parenthood, Thanks for the encouragement guys, think i'll go drown myself now! ;)
  11. I did not mean that I would be able to suppress them since I certainly don't have control of them paying seminars so they can lecture at them. However, when I said "I find it much more satisfying to work behind the scenes to make sure that their hair-brained ideas never get positive exposure within the podiatric profession", I meant that whenever a podiatrist contacts me about what I think about them and their ideas (which has been quite often lately), I'm sure to give them an earful of what I really think about them. And the opinion I give seems to be the same opinion shared by other podiatrists who lecture on biomechanics around our country about these individuals.
  12. working behind scenes


    That i like the sound of. One of the problems i find with Biomechanics is that the balance of humanity who don't understand it struggle to tell the difference between science and fallacy, especially when fallacy tends to have more money behind it. I suppose it is our duty to keep the science alive and resist the pressure and temptation from those who would abuse it for there own financial ends.

    Apologies Mr K. I misunderstood you.

  13. Robert:

    No need for apologies. I didn't mind clarifying the meaning of my statements.

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