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A New Years Plea To Mark Russell

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by Jacky Nowle, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. Jacky Nowle

    Jacky Nowle Member

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.

    They say that no win no fee solicitors operate on the basis that they will only proceed if they are 99.9% that they will win the case!

    Please, please, please, unless you are 99.9% certain that you will win any appeal, please cut your losses, pay the fine, court costs etc, and just cut your losses now. Be sensible and stop all of this nonsense.!
  2. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    Wise counsel Jacky
  3. Well Jacky, thank goodness I'm no solicitor then! As Syd will no doubt testify, deference to authority is not one of my strong traits.... We are all influenced differently; one of my favourite speeches was by Howard Zinn who addressed John Hopkins University during the Vietnam conflict in 1970 - something I shared recently with someone who I admire greatly.
    Happy New Year !
  4. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Never reached me mark, you must have my old email.
    I had forgotten Prof howard zinn. found his 'peoples history of the united states' compelling reading (and bloody depressing).
    Catch-22, only book i've read more than twice.
  5. It'll be the christmas post, Mark - always a problem these days! Hope you're all well - have a great 2014...:drinks

  6. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    I must confess that I am less enamoured of Mark's stand since he used podiatric surgery as an example of practice outside the norm, and so said in a courtroom in this country. However, he is entitled to his view and is taking a principled stand. Interestingly, not everyone does that, but prefers to stand aside and allow cynical people to twist the law to the detriment of a portion of the population. That, incidentally, is how Hitler was elected - democratically.

    I suggest that if you are a lawyer then please offer him your help. If you are not, then informing him that he should be 'sensible' and that he should 'stop all this nonsense' is patronising (maybe matronising), presumptuous and uncalled for at best and perhaps an insidious infiltration by the HCPC at worst.

    You will note that neither Mark Russell, or I, are afraid to write over our own names.

    W J Liggins
  7. Jacky Nowle

    Jacky Nowle Member


    Mark may well face financial ruin, which is why sometimes it is best to cut ones losses! I was very disappointed with how his case went, I had hoped that he would win, but sometimes in life, we must cut our losses.
  8. Lab Guy

    Lab Guy Well-Known Member

    For better or worse, change can only come by those brave enough to refuse to cut their losses. Still, it takes wisdom and putting the ego aside to know when to stay in the battle and being prepared for high losses. I only wish Mark the best and hope he prevails.

  9. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    Hi Mark

    I have been following your posts on this subject and on other threads and I really wanted to say something to support you but also to say 'are you sure mate'
    I suppose I don't have the courage to follow in your footsteps but I am with you in principle. However there is a risk/gain assessment to be made by each person and each has to make up their own mind where they stand on their principles and what is too much to risk.

    So anyway just in a light hearted way (if that's allowed here) I put together some of my favourite quotes but just changed them a bit - I think it's in good taste but I'm not always the best judge of that - perhaps you'll enjoy ;)

    The Principle Stands

    14 “And Mark said, I am the good podiatry shepherd; I know my own people, and they know me, 15 just as my heart knows me and I know my heart. So I sacrifice my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.
    17 “The Principle loves me because I sacrifice my registration so I may take it back again. 18 No one can take my Podiatrist title away from me, I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Principle has demanded.”
    19 When he said these things, the people[c] were again divided in their opinions about him. 20 Some said, “He’s demon possessed and out of his mind. Why listen to a man like that?” 21 Others said, “This doesn’t sound like a man possessed by a demon! Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”
    25 Mark replied, “I have already told you, and you don’t believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Principle’s name. 26 But some of you don’t believe me because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them life after HCPC, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Principle has given them to me, and it is more powerful than anything else.[d] No one can snatch them from the Principle’s hand. 30 The Principle and I are one.”

    The Cost of Following the Principle

    26“If you want follow the Principle, you must despise everything else by comparison—your father and mother, wife and children, your friends and colleagues, the SPC—yes, even your own Life and the HCPC. Otherwise, you cannot follow Me.
    …27"Whoever is not willing to carry his own heavy load and come after Me cannot be My follower. 28"For which one of you, when he wants to oppose the HCPC for instance, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? 29"Otherwise, when he has laid down a challenge and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him 30They would say, ‘There’s the person who started that battle and couldn’t afford to finish it!’ 31“Or what warrior would go to war against a Great army without first sitting down with his counsellors to discuss whether he could defeat the 20,000 drones marching against him? 32And what if he can’t, then he will send a delegation to discuss terms of peace while the enemy is still far away. 33So you, therefore, can make peace and be humbled but you cannot follow the Principle without giving up everything you own.
    34Think of this though; a little rebellious spirit is good for rousing the Militia. But if it should lose its flavour, how do you make it passionate again? 35A discouraged heart is good neither for the noble cause nor for the acquiescent soul - It is lost. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!”
    6 Those who heard Mark use this illustration didn’t understand what he meant, 7 so he explained it to them:“I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who came before me[a] were thieves and robbers. But the true sheep did not listen to them. 9 Yes, I am the gate. Those who come in to podiatry through me will be saved.They will come and go freely and will find good pastures. 10 The HCPC’s purpose is to steal and ravage and destroy. My purpose is to give you a rich and satisfying life.
    11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd sacrifices his life for the sheep. 12 A hired hand will run when he sees a HCPC prosecution coming. He will abandon the sheep because they don’t belong to him and he isn’t their shepherd. And so the HCPC attacks them and scatters the flock. 13 The hired hand runs away because he’s working only for the money and doesn’t really care about the sheep

    Sage Advice

    10 Seventy years are given to us!
    Some even live to eighty or more.
    But even the best years are filled with pain and troublesome officious gits!
    And soon they disappear, and we fly away.
    11 Who can comprehend the power of anger?
    Rage is as frustrating as the cause it serves.
    12 Can we realize the brevity of life,
    so that we may grow in wisdom and just chill a bit.
  10. rosherville

    rosherville Active Member


    'I was very disappointed with how his case went, I had hoped that he would win 'I]

    That hardly logical, as he pleaded guilty in advance, he'd 'lost' before the case was heard !

    Do you mean that that you were disappointed in how he went about defending himself ?
  11. Thank you Bill. I'm not sure what you refer to in your first sentence - would you be kind enough to elaborate?

  12. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Hi Mark

    I don't want to diversify from OP but in your case, you did use the example of the medical profession being upset by the use of the title 'podiatric surgeon' and drew some sort of parallel with FHPs. You would hardly expect me to have sympathy with this sort of argument.

    All the best

  13. Bill,

    That is absolutely not the case. What I did say was this:

    and followed by

    The quote in italics is taken from the Law Commission's Consultation the rest is mine. The first quote sets the context. Where in my submission do I refer to Podiatric Surgeons, please?
  14. Kaleidoscope

    Kaleidoscope Active Member


    When you said what you did above to Mark - did you not realise that now that Mark has a criminal record against his name, this prevents him from re-joining the HCPC EVEN if he now wanted to?

    Therefore saying that he should 'stop all this nonsense' (which personally I also felt sounded a little patronising especially coming from a new poster!) doesnt help.

    I hate the fact that we are becoming so divided over this (AGAIN) - when in fact Mark has made it quite clear (and he did so at Court also but his fears were sadly ignored) that it is the GENERAL PUBLIC he is most concerned about - being treated by people who have been struck off for whatever reason - usually for poor treatment of patients - who then just re-appear in a slightly different guise and carry on as before, but now unable to be challenged as they are outside the Law ! That CANNOT be right!

    He is NOT commenting on whether the practitioner was a Podiatrist or a FHP (or a Surgeon) - as he acknowledges there are good and bad examples of those in both professions and indeed he has friends who were/are in both camps - and surely THAT argument has been done to death now and is becoming boring?

    We really need unity if we are to achieve any sort of respect for our profession. So please offer help where you can but dont berate someone for trying to make a stand on behalf of us all!

    Linda Russell
  15. Happy New Year Linda and thanks for the kind words. The problem is that a significant percentage of our profession don't understand what regulation is all about. Many even believe the Society and HCPC are actually the same organisation. Many that do follow professional issues think that regulation is solely about protecting the public and setting professional and clinical standards which gives us the framework in which we practice. But of course, it isn't. It also sets the framework in which the profession functions. When you compare the UK to other countries such as the USA and Australia you witness a growing divide in podiatry practice and we are firmly on the wrong side of the fence. The same applies when you compare UK podiatry to the UK dental profession, to whom we enjoyed some sort of parity with until the early 1960s. Why?

    Until the majority of the profession appreciate what we have and where we are going with the present set-up then we will never realise our potential. Our principal duty is to our patients and the members of the public who may seek our care. If we all stuck to that principle, then we might elevate ourselves to a different platform altogether.

    Loved the last poem btw.

  16. Dave

    I'm, going to hire you as my PR consultant. You can even have my crown of thorns!

    Have a good 2014.


  17. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Haven't had the pleasure but great post, admirer from afar
  18. That depends on what you think the objective is. If, like most things nowadays, the stakes were monetary then I'm certainly way down at this stage. Notwithstanding my losses over the last five and a half years and the costs of defending the action and the costs liability there will be some significant losses still to come.

    Just before Christmas, someone from the HCPC contacted the clinic where I rent rooms and helpfully informed the owner that I had been subject to a criminal prosecution. Of course, all our staff knew about the case and the outcome last November, however as the clinic holds CQC Accreditation, it was suggested that this might be at risk if I continued to work there. On the same day my local newspaper, the Blackpool Gazette received an email from the HCPC attaching their press release with a request to publish it. Thankfully the journalist contacted me and the paper are running a full feature once the appeal has been heard. However, some other publications have not been quite so helpful - including Podiatry Now who published the press release without commentary or even notifying me that in was in there December Journal - that alone has resulted in countless telephone calls and emails from colleagues throughout the UK who were unaware of the proceedings. Given these rather malicious actions by the HCPC - particularly when an appeal is in process - I have had no alternative other than to close my practice, at least for the time being and I'm grateful to one of my local colleagues who will be looking after my patient list from tomorrow.

    So, I guess in monetary terms, John, I'm way down in the relegation zone and I haven't had the most enjoyable of festive periods, but sometimes you have to bear these costs to gain something that you cannot measure financially. The disappointing part of all this for me is not how I presented my case but simply the conduct of the HCPC and its agents - and if you wish to add all of the costs over the last five and a half years on both sides - it seems incredible that they all could have been avoided by an acknowledgment of the situation by the Registrar in the first place.

    Plenty happening in the next few weeks. Will keep you up to date.
  19. blinda

    blinda MVP

    The above renders me too angry to post anything positive, other than there are many of us supporting you, Mark.

    In a nutshell, (whilst claiming to `protect the public`) the HCPC take no action whatsoever to ensure that the practitioners who are struck off the register as unfit to practice do not continue work (thus posing a very real threat to the public), yet will go out of their way to positively hound a respected professional whose practice has never been brought into question.

    With regards to the re-printing of the HCPC press release by the SCP, without context or any comment.....not impressed. Not. At. All.
  20. rosherville

    rosherville Active Member


    You may be 'too angry' but are you surprised ? All this was to be expected.

    'many of us are supporting you', maybe, but I hope this 'support' doesn`t encourage Mark to carry on digging the same hole even deeper ! It`s not really support but sympathy with no practical use !

    The world is as it is, not always fair and as you would like it to be !
  21. blinda

    blinda MVP

    No, John. I never said I was surprised.

    As for the rest of your post, best I don`t comment right now.
  22. Simon Ross

    Simon Ross Active Member

    To top lady Belinda,

    "(whilst claiming to `protect the public`) the HCPC take no action whatsoever to ensure that the practitioners who are struck off the register as unfit to practice do not continue work (thus posing a very real threat to the public)"

    It is my UNDERSTANDING that this is PURELY the fault of the 2001 Health Professions Order, not the HCPC itself, one has to be fair!

    BTW, I am not being sarcy when I say top lady, I honestly think you are, you appropriately speak your mind, and we need more like you in society!
  23. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Thank you, Simon.

    You are quite right that it is indeed the HPO legislation that is key to the principle in Mark`s stand here. However, the subsequent actions undertaken by staff representing the HCPC bear no relation to this and, if anything, serve to demonstrate that if they feel so inclined, they can prevent unregulated practitioners from working, albeit in a very questionable manner. As Mark said, pure malice.
  24. John is quite right, Bel - he's older and more experienced with these things than you or I - and is no different to many other colleagues whose anger has given way to cynicism with the likes of the HCPC and other agencies involved in our profession. I do however appreciate his support, albeit in his own way. Life is never fair; you can but try and make it a little better. :drinks
  25. blinda

    blinda MVP

    You`re tellin` me...":drinks" certainly helps.
  26. rosherville

    rosherville Active Member


    No, John. I never said I was surprised.

    Quite, I simply asked if you were !

    If you weren't surprised then you must have guessed the likely outcome of such actions and in support you would presumably have advised accordingly !

  27. blinda

    blinda MVP

    You assume too much, John. Time for me to take a back seat. For now.
  28. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member


    Could we draft a letter (maybe me) stating how appalled we are at your unfair treatment by the HCHPC which from an outside perspective is nothing less than a malicious prosecution to satisfy an inappropriate ego. The whole action by the HCPC seems to be wholly unprofessional and requires investigation and inquiry by another authority that can reign in their viscous and vindictive ambition.

    But how many would sign such a letter and where would it be sent? So far my MP has shown no interest in letters I've sent, giving general complaint about HCPC inappropriate action against clinicians, and just passes the buck elsewhere. But I'm going to write again with more specific complaints.

    Maybe we could have a pol and see how many would support this action?

    Dave Smith
  29. rosherville

    rosherville Active Member


    I suggest you make a list of each action that you consider the HCPC were exceeding their authority in doing, bearing in mind their remit. Then you would be in a position to proceed further.

    A signed letter saying how appalled you (and others) are, may make you feel better but will have no useful effect !

    I look forward to seeing your list !

  30. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    I actually did just that by PM and telephone to Mark.

    As much as I admire his principle and wish him well on this matter he is fighting alone and I fear IMHO is on a self destruct pathway .

    Once again Mark advice from an old campaigner, Know when to walk away and cut your losses because when this is over, things and people move on. Just make sure look after yourself and make self preservation your priority please.

    Best wishes my friend

  31. Hi Dave

    No reason why any colleague can't write to their MP and alert them too the risk to the public from the HCPC Fitness to Practise process. I would highlight three cases....




    ....and ask what protection the public can expect under a regulatory regime that simply protects the title. You know the arguments by now. I agree that complaining about my experience would not make much difference - MPs are only concerned with this sort of thing when it is one of their own constituents, but you might want to alert them to the fact that the issue will shortly be in the public and political arena and they may wish to consider the matter on your behalf.

    Good to see some positive thinking,

    Kind regards
  32. Mark:

    I know little about all this stuff since I'm just a Yankee podiatrist with not too much political knowledge of how podiatry works in countries other than my home country.

    However, I do think that sometimes a man needs to stand up for what he feels is right, regardless of what others think, and regardless of the consequences. This is sometimes, unfortunately, the only way that change occurs in political/judicial systems.

    My advice?? Go with your gut and don't worry about what others think!
  33. rosherville

    rosherville Active Member


    My advice?? Go with your gut and don't worry about what others think !

    That`s just what Mark did and he now has a criminal record !

    I'm just a Yankee podiatrist with not too much political knowledge of how podiatry works in countries other than my home country.

    Clearly so.

    Mark is now in a worse position, than those who are HCPC registered, to lobby for change. Yet these same people are encouraging him to continue.

    and David Smith, have you compiled the list that could be used to support Mark ?
  34. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Also he is now unable to re register because of the criminal record, is quoted as saying he is many thousands of pounds down and now has lost his practice :mad:

    So yep lets all encourage him to carry on and all join in and de register ect :pigs:

    I have told Mark privately and now publicly my opinion having been in a crusade for years in my previous life over patient protection and care so I advise with some degree of experience.

    I know it is not what Mark and others want to hear but it is said with the best intentions for Marks future survival and to make him think long and hard before it becomes impossible to salvage anything of his professional life.

    Mark you have my best whichever path you choose.
  35. In keeping with the theme of this thread, can I just make a plea for some mature and sensible discussion rather than the kind seen of late? I am perfectly aware of what the consequences are of taking this stance, including the possibility of a custodial sentence for non-payment of costs. This has been my decision - I am not prepared to subscribe to a system of regulation that is not only hugely damaging to my profession but actually puts the public at serious risk by its own function. Whether you agree or disagree with my position is mostly irrelevant, whether you feel disappointed in my application to court is also irrelevant. I'm not doing this to please you or to curry any favour with anyone. I do this because I think it is the right course of action for the profession and the public who seek its services and because at the end of the day I have to live with myself and that would be difficult if I turned a blind eye to this dangerous and harmful legislation.

    In the coming weeks it is likely that there will be a focus of attention on this case and the wider issues it represents from outside the profession. Some of that focus will be directed here on Pod Arena and therefore comments will be subject to scrutiny by others not usually concerned with podiatry it would be good if the level of debate reflects the impression we would expect the public and media to have towards us. Can I also remind colleagues that the case is not over and there is still a legal process under-way and comments such as these....
    .... are not only unhelpful but terribly presumptuous. As my grandmother might have said, if you don't have anything useful to add, say nothing. Please.

    On the subject of scrutiny I have had an exchange of correspondence with Bill Liggins regarding this comment he made
    To make it explicitly clear, I have NOT used podiatry surgery as an example of practice outside the norm, nor said so in court - in written or oral evidence, nor is it my view. Bill has arrived at his conclusion because I uploaded a photograph on page 5 of the Regulation of Podiatry thread - post 127 which highlights a paragraph I used in evidence - and the previous paragraph, which he finds offensive and feels might be used by those opposed to podiatric surgery, reads:
    This is not a view that I agree with, nor have I used in any context with my case. It is however a valid opinion and one held by many in the medical establishment in addition to that of the Patient Association and indeed, even by some in our own profession. As such, it is one that we should be defending vigorously and not hiding from, if we are serious about maintaining and developing a surgical faculty in our profession. It is unfortunate that I included it in the photograph especially if it caused some confusion, but I trust this clarifies explicitly what my views are on the subject.

    Best wishes

    Attached Files:

  36. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    I withdraw from the discussion.

    Good Luck Mark, may it turn out right for you in the final analysis

  37. I believe the late Nelson Mandela was also considered a criminal by many and served 27 years in prison because he stood up for what he thought was right. Look at where it got him and what his "criminality" did for his own country and the people of his race....

    Something to consider, DTT and Rosherville, before you start condemning Mark's actions....
  38. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member


    Please read what I have written and before you put your sanctimonious interpretation on it which is offensive in the extreme :mad:

    UNDERSTAND where it is coming from.

    I support Mark and he has my utmost respect my comments were for his well being in the future nothing more.

    My advice to you is to butt out of what you don't understand and a reminder Nelson Mandela was a bloody terrorist in the beginning and him and his wife Winnie were responsible for mass murder and torture to hundreds .

    Beginnings such as this do not get my respect or sympathy BUT that's just me.

    Please do not quote until you understand the facts in both instances :mad:
  39. rosherville

    rosherville Active Member


    Before you start condemning Mark's actions

    Please read more carefully and you may see that there's no condemnation, just different views. This is to be expected, unless you believe that whatever Mark decides has to be adopted by everyone else; after all, 'there's more than one way to skin a cat' (an old English expression).

    If you disagree and don't want alternate views, why post on a forum such as this ?

  40. Then give us your view on how best to change the legislation to protect function and what you have done to secure that change, John. You can always start by adding your name to the petition submitted to Downing Street last month....

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