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Best high speed camera for gait analysis?

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Berms, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. Berms

    Berms Active Member

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    Hi all,
    I am doing some homework regarding the best set up for gait analysis that I am setting up in the practice. I will probably use Silicon Coach Pro as I have used this in the past and liked it.

    However, there seems to be a lot of confusing and conflicting information out there about exactly what cameras are best for this application.... I understand that you can use Mini DV camcorders but I would prefer to use a high speed camera for more frames per second and better image quality even if it is a bit more expensive.

    What are the best high speed cameras and where can I get them?

    Thanks for any advice.
  2. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    I would strongly recommend that you ask Siliconcoach what high speed cameras their software will integrate with as most high speed cameras have their own proprietary software.

    I have been testing a number of the new USB3 cameras which are just available – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K30e8HeGRr4&list=UUKAyJTx5d--PQN6W8R-ua8Q&index=3&feature=plcp

    These will undoubtedly be the future as the frame rate/resolution via a simple usb cable is fantastic – no additional power source etc.
  3. lcp

    lcp Active Member

    I use my iphone with kinovea, not hugely high speed but does the trick just nicely, and basically free if you already have the phone.
  4. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    Question for the experts

    If we use a high speed camera aren't we going to require more memory space to store the client files?

    Berms, if your not doing athletes running, leaping, jumping do you need that higher speed camera in the first place?
  5. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    Good question - do you really need high-speed and all the grief (and cost) that goes with it. If 50/60 frames per second is okay then I strongly suggest that you go for a HD camcorder

    This an example of runner 10 kph with a standard off the shelf Panasonic HD camcorder £260.00 streaming live into a PC 50 fps

    This is the same lab with a 200 fps high speed Basler approx £2,300 with lens, power supply etc


    Finally, more memory space will be required as well as processing speed (otherwise you will drop frames), you will also be recommended to compress the images too.
  6. Berms

    Berms Active Member

    Hi Jonathan, thanks for the advice. I will contact Silicon Coach again regarding camera suitability.

    Can you recommend any other well known high speed cameras that I could ask them about?
  7. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    I would imagine unless there is demand for any particular high-speed camera then they will advise you want you can have - if they do and you want my opinion let me know. But lens and light quality will determine image quality rather than camera brand.

    It is only when you leave the machine vision cameras and choose professional/broadcast high speed cameras (and the high price - upwards of £10,000) will you start getting pictures we see on TV - like golf ball being crushed by Rory Mc Ilroy.
  8. colpod

    colpod Member

    Have a look at the Casio Exilim range. Will record high speed at 120, 240, 420 or 1000 fps. I tend to use 240 for running up to 22kph (that is all my treadmill will do) and do not lose any detail. For about 8 secs of video memory is about 40-50mb. Recording at higher fps gives more detail but does not really give me anymore useful information, although the patients do think it is more impressive. the image is too small at 1000fps to be of any use in gait analysis, unless you are focusing in on a small piece of detail. I brought mine last year for £249 plus another £120 for insurance, case, tripod, high speed memory card. Also it recently came top on Sky 1 Gadget Geeks program last week.

    I also use Kinovea (free download) and find it does all I need from a system to play back to the patient immediately during the assessment.

    Colin Papworth
  9. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    In the clinics I work in which don't have the MAR system, I either use the Flip HD recorder (approx £80 from amazon and goes straight into laptop via USB for instant playback), or the iPad 2, with an app which allows slow-mo video playback and cost about £6.

    Both are quick and simple to use, relatively inexpensive, and give all the information you will require for a clinical consult.
  10. Berms

    Berms Active Member

    Thanks for the info Jonathan.

    You have mentioned two set ups above - one relatively cheap camera with 50fps and the other much more expensive and complicated camera with 200fps....

    Is there a camera somewhere in the middle you can recommend that has 100fps and that doesn't cost $2,300??
  11. Berms

    Berms Active Member

    Hi Colin, that sounds good. I will look into the Casio Exilim range. What is the image quality like at 240fps? Also, being battery powered you obviously turn the cameras on and off each time you use them? How long does the battery last?

  12. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    If you are just want to use one camera and import and you have Silicon Coach then use a Casio Exilim - but I would suggest that this would drive you nuts if you are targetting runners.

    If you want live streaming to the hard drive via your Silicon Coach then you will have to speak with them.

    There are some cheaper 100 fps high resolution camera like the PoE GigE Baslers that cost approx £800 but then again you will need to ask your software provider - personally if you want the ease and quickness of 'Live' capture stick with camcorders -

    iPads are appalling, shutter speed is based on light. Apple will not allow any developer to touch the cameras firmware, you are better off with an Android if you are going down that route , they have superior cameras and you can adjust the shutter speed within the App. But it will be 50/60 frames per second.

    Gadget Geeks - shame that they didn't actually overlay each camera image but the Casio won hands down. But I loved the Tee Shirt machine
  13. Do you use the camera on your ipad, Griff?
  14. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    The video camera function yes. In a well lit room it is more than satisfactory for gait analysis in my opinion. And by the time of the iPad 3/4/5 it wouldn't surprise me if the camera gets much much better (HD quality).
  15. Just given me a reason to buy one! Any ideas when the iPad 3 might be arriving?
  16. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    This year for sure. Last I heard it was due in March.

    PS This is the app I use: http://www.excelade.com/
  17. I'm hoping for 2 cameras to allow 3d imaging..... If I worked for Apple I'd put that in for sure
  18. Berms

    Berms Active Member

    Thanks Jonathan. I think I will stick to the ease and quickness of camcorders... Any particular camcorder that I should be looking at? or features I need?

    Thanks again.
  19. colpod

    colpod Member

    Hi Berms

    "Hi Colin, that sounds good. I will look into the Casio Exilim range. What is the image quality like at 240fps? Also, being battery powered you obviously turn the cameras on and off each time you use them? How long does the battery last?


    I carry a spare battery but would think I get a couple of busy days out of battery. There is a problem as you cannot direct stream and so a delay with finding the video file but as you can play direct from the camera it only takes a couple of mins. and as I go through this with the patient at the time I have enough time as they have to get of the treadmill and ready to watch anyway.

    The quality is good. There are some video shots at 240fps on our facebook page at 'holywell healthcare' if you want to have a look. They are outside shots from a running course - hence the funny running styles.

  20. In 2011 we set up clinic in Australia (using contemplas templo) with 100fps Basler Ace cameras, with POE power. Also works great outside with POE power source from laptop. Camera cost about $1k each. Clinic (Andrew Barlow Podiatry) has run 100fps two views, overlayed with dynamic in shoe pressure measurement, and then overlayed with 3D foot scans for orthotic CAD modelling. Fun times with all above technology combined, and at $1k each for 100fps and POE cameras, they are in that "middle ground" for price you mentioned in thread.

  21. Berms

    Berms Active Member

    Hi Dieter, thanks for your response.

    How do you like Tempo software?
    Did you get software, computer and cameras all from Mar Systems?
    How difficult was it to get the cameras set up and working properly?


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