Hi guys
Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
Following on from the posting on biometrics.
Over the last few years I have become involved in this area using certain podiatry observational skills to help police in their enquiries, either to eliminate or implicate an individual. In particular I have used gait and posture as the tool for analysing CCTV.
Whilst I have my own, many, questions over this area and begun writing my own little framework for its use I would like to open this out a little and see if you can bring in put for me by exploring some of the follpwing questions:
1. Do you think it is possible?
2. What main markers would you use for identification?
There are other questions but these two are important to start with.
Thanks for your help. :)
Ian
Tags:
<
Potential sites of compression of tibial nerve branches in foot
|
Use of SPECT-CT scans in diseases of the foot
>
Page 1 of 2
-
-
Hi Ian,
I think gait and posture may be useful identifiers when combined with other factors (type of clothing worn/height of subject).
Just an amateur observation you understand :) .
Cheers,
David -
Hi there, Mr Willie Kerr at Queen Margaret University Edinburgh, is the man you should talk to, if i remember right he has done major study in this area, you should be able to get his email from the university web site.
forensic podiatry is used widely! and is an up and coming area of study!
hope this helps you out. -
Thanks Big Toe and David.
Ian -
Ian,
Another name of note in this field is Dr wesley Vernon who I think is based in Sheffield but has also recently joined the team at Staffordshire University(who run the MSc in Clinical Biomechanics).
If you know of any key papers in this field could you post them up here? I'm sure I'm one of many who would enjoy reading them
Many thanks
Ian -
Norfolk GA.
The history of forensic podiatry.
J Clin Forensic Med. 2004 Aug;11(4):219.
Brown T, Rutty GN.
Forensic web watch forensic podiatry.
J Clin Forensic Med. 2003 Dec;10(4):283-4.
Nirenberg MS.
Forensic methods and the podiatric physician.
J Am Podiatr Med Assoc. 1989 May;79(5):247-52.
Forensic Podiatry Consulting Services
Forensic Podiatry -
Hi Ian
Just read the thread. There is paper called "Identifying the wearer of worn footwear". A search on NCBI should find it for you.
Morgan -
Hi
Thanks to all concerned.
I have been concerned that when studying gait for identification purposes (in CCTV analysis) there has been a narrowing of the field.
e.g. use of the degree of genu varum alone etc
To that extent I have tried to combine postural and gait parameters to develope a system of creating as many identifying markers as possible, against which to make a comparison between a known and unknown person.
All information / ideas gratefully received
Ian -
Podiatry, Forensic History!
Hi Ian,
Gait and CCTV Analysis sounds good. I have seen a TV. Doc. where a Forensic Podiatrist/pathologist was used by police to examine feet. (USA?), where a couple of fractures had occurred in the bones of the feet! X-Rays had been taken at the local hospital! The skeleton was identified by comparison similar to Forensic Dentist and teeth.
I had a woman fished out of the river, our forensic Dentist identified her by taking a cast of the teeth and traced a possible missing persons dentist and her dental record's! Application to feet perhaps. A sequel to this I still don't know how my hands ended up down her throat holding the dentist's Silicone mould, crafty he was but brilliant at his work for us, Mr. Jackson I think was his name?
Forensic Podiatry was done by our support 'Home Office Forensic Scientist' in my time! Damage to foot wear showing up in fingerprint powder then compared to suspects shoes,(Like car tyre and scene mark!).
One of the classics 1930's something was a thief who broke into a house and found some new shoes, he swapped them for his old ones and left them behind at the scene! The Scientist removed the uppers, caste them and the feet of the thief, (Bumps and hollows, particularly the metatarsal joints!). Perfect fit Jailed on the evidence!
Footprints rare. Thieves were so inconsiderate, they would wear shoes you know! Have been caught when they took off their shoes to walk quietly in burglary though!!! Sixteen plus identification points, better than fingerprints! Today possible traces of DNA from sweaty feet and sweaty shoes possible, perhaps???
The way a villain walkers with gait abnormalities possible I'm sure!
History Ian rather than direct application I'm afraid, hope it's useful. Stance and gait I'm sure holds prospects on the new spy in the sky! Forensic Science used to be a closed sacred territory, different today perhaps?
Regards,
Colin.
PS. Det. Supt. borrowed my books, last I saw of them, typical! I'm sure Google might help? -
Hi Colin
Thanks for the info.
Having done several cases of this now I am of the view that gait alone must have an extreme unusuality about it to be suffiencient for identification. For this reaon I have tended to apply the combination of posture and gait. This allows for you to observe postural alignments and movements and combine it with information from the individuals gait.
There are hugely significant issues to be aware of.
Cheers
Ian -
Gait?
Hi Ian,
Yes I'm afraid so we used to be always looking for the unusual all the time to raise the value of the evidence! Splayed foot for instance, never mind the Latin! Usually the Scientific Aids Officers specialized in the recovery of footprints, (Plaster casting etc.?), but normal surfaces would not give you the detail you needed for top value evidence the 'Physical Fit'? The splay also destroyed the detail in the print because he was walking scrubbing his foot to stop falling over!
Identification on camera, physical and demeanour helpful possibly crucial as we have just seen as we watch TV. (No discussion, details, please here Ian!).
A good Q.C. and there are a few of them about, (Now that one could be risky and duly noted!), can really take pleasure in having a go at the expert witness! It's not all sweetness and roses?
Regards,
Colin.
PS. Sherlock Holmes rides again! The writer really did know what he was talking about even if traditionally the Force usually used to talk him down even in my time! -
The forensic analysis of soils and sediment taken from the cast of a footprint.
Bull PA, Parker A, Morgan RM.
Forensic Sci Int. 2006 Aug 16
-
Ian,
I am interested in evaluating a suspect, you can assess the gait pattern, when subjects wear different clothing,long coats, run, carry a bag, rucksack etc...
The perceived angle of viewing and parallax error is particularly great.
As an aside, much work has been done on the ear as identification tool!!
Apparently very individual! -
Hi Achilles
The ear, or at least a particular part of the ear, was a key in identifying the possibility of whether an individual was one of Sadam Husseins sons or not. Apparently it is exceedingly difficult to alter it, even with plastic surgery.
From your opening are you saying you are actually doing an analysis?
Ian -
The development and practice of forensic podiatry.
Vernon W.
J Clin Forensic Med. 2006 Oct 4
-
Netizens
Step forward for foot forensics
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,2001546,00.html
Cameron -
netizens
Recent article on forensic podiatry.
http://www.thetimesonline.com/artic...althy/doc90005f1486f5ec38862573fd007daaf2.txt
toeslayer -
Video interview:
Forensic Specialists Using Footprints Instead of Fingerprints -
".....to combine postural and gait parameters..."
They better hope they dont get some corrective orthotics in between the CCTV images and the Arrest :D -
Establishing correlation of footprints with body weight-Forensic aspects.
Krishan K.
Forensic Sci Int. 2008 May 30. [Epub ahead of print]
-
Identification of Sex Depending on Radiological Examination of Foot and Patella.
Abdel Moneim WM, Abdel Hady RH, Abdel Maaboud RM, Fathy HM, Hamed AM
Am J Forensic Med Pathol. 2008 Jun;29(2):136-140
-
Stature estimation from foot dimensions.
Kanchan T, Menezes RG, Moudgil R, Kaur R, Kotian MS, Garg RK.
Forensic Sci Int. 2008 Jul 4. [Epub ahead of print]
-
Sex determination by discriminant analysis of calcaneal measurements on the lateral digital radiography
Zhang ZH, Chen XG, Li WK, Yang SQ, Deng ZH, Yu JQ, Yang ZG, Huang L.
Fa Yi Xue Za Zhi. 2008 Apr;24(2):122-5.
-
The Post Tribune are reporting:
If the shoe fits... Crown Point podiatrist fighting crime
-
-
Age-Related Factors in the Relationship Between Foot Measurements and Living Stature and Body Weight.
Atamturk D, Duyar I.
J Forensic Sci. 2008 Aug 18. [Epub ahead of print]
-
An efficient clustering-based retrieval framework for real crime scene footwear marks.
Yi Tang, Harish Kasiviswanathan, Sargur N. Srihari.
International Journal of Granular Computing, Rough Sets and Intelligent Systems, 2012; 2 (4): 327
Footwear forensics
CSI needs to tread carefully
-
Footprint ridge density: A new attribute for sexual dimorphism
T. Kanchan, K. Krishan, K.R. Aparna, S. Shyamsunder
HOMO - Journal of Comparative Human Biology (Available online 6 November 2012)
-
High profile murder trial in Australia:
-
The identification of individuals by observational gait analysis using closed circuit television footage
Ivan Birch, Louis Raymond, Anastasia Christou, Milan Angelo Fernando, Nigel Harrison, Flo Paul
Science & Justice in press
-
Great work by the Brighton students and Ivan. Well done.
"This study investigated the ability of individuals with experience in gait analysis to identify people by observing features of gait recorded by closed circuit television cameras (CCTV). Seven experienced analysts each viewed five samples of footage. Each sample showed a “target walker” and five “suspect walkers.” The task of the experienced analysts was to determine which, if any, of the “suspect walkers” was the “target walker.” All of the participant “walkers” wore identical loose fitting clothing to mask anatomical and body contour features, and balaclavas to obscure facial features. The overall results showed that the experienced analysts made a correct decision in 124 of 175 cases (71%), significantly better than would have been expected to have occurred by chance (p < 0.05). A significant variation in correct decisions (p < 0.05) was shown to occur between the various angles from which the footage was recorded, footage recorded in the saggital plane showing the highest number of correct decisions. Significantly more correct decisions (p < 0.05) were also shown to occur when the footage of the “target walker” and that of the “suspect walker” were taken from the same angle. The results suggest that individuals with experience in gait analysis perform well in the comparative identification of suspects from CCTV footage, and therefore do have a role to play as expert witnesses in this field." -
Well done team and thanks to Ian for posting. -
Hi David
Admin did the initial post on the previous page really just that I thought it should show up on the second page.
Considering there was little distinguishing visual information:
All of the participant “walkers” wore identical loose fitting clothing to mask anatomical and body contour features, and balaclavas to obscure facial features
I think the result is reasonable. In actual CCTV work anatomical landmarks and body contours can be significant contributors. -
-
Hello,
I am very interested in forensics and addicted to the programmes! Has anybody done the forensic podiatry masters degree? I would love to become involved in this section but feel it is a very very small area for business? -
Hi Jasmin
It is indeed a fascinating area to work in. With regard to the Masters I would make contact with Prof Wes Vernon (He is on here) and chat with him regards what is involved. -
Ian Linane on here has done quite a bit, and I think has been on at The Old Bailey (right side of the dock!:D). Talk of the devil - he just squeaked in front of me on the thread.
Do the Post-Grad Cert first and see how you find it. This will allow you to dip a toe in the water before committing to the Masters. You'll have to do the Cert in any case if you want to complete the Masters (my understanding, and they may have changed the rules since I talked to Wesley Vernon last). -
Okay thank you guys. How do I search Mr Vernon on here?
-
-
Page 1 of 2
<
Potential sites of compression of tibial nerve branches in foot
|
Use of SPECT-CT scans in diseases of the foot
>
Loading...
- Similar Threads - Forensic podiatry
-
- Replies:
- 0
- Views:
- 595
-
- Replies:
- 0
- Views:
- 1,519
-
- Replies:
- 1
- Views:
- 4,719
-
- Replies:
- 10
- Views:
- 9,095
-
- Replies:
- 2
- Views:
- 4,795
-
- Replies:
- 3
- Views:
- 7,497
-
- Replies:
- 0
- Views:
- 4,251