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Input from Sole Support users?

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Don Bursch, Oct 30, 2006.

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  1. Don Bursch

    Don Bursch Member

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    To follow up on this query from Ben, I thought I would start this thread. I have used them since 1996 and think they are unusually effective on a very wide spectrum of foot types (especially on my very planus flexible feet). But I work for the company, so let's hear from other users.
  2. This thread is blatant attempt to promote a product in which the thread starter has a vested interest.
  3. Don:

    So glad you asked.

    1. The first patient I saw who was using Sole Support insoles thought they were slightly uncomfortable and hadn't helped at all with their plantar fasciitis.

    2. The second patient I saw who was using Sole Support insoles found that they didn't make their symptomatic side any better and made their asymptomatic left foot become very painful over the peroneal tendons. This patient said to me, "Dr. Kirby, why would the doctor want to hurt my good foot with these arch supports?!! My left ankle didn't start hurting until I got these insoles!!"

    3. The third patient I saw who was using Sole Support insoles found that they were comfortable and helped with his plantar fasciitis by about 20%. He also thought his Keen Sandals were much more comfortable than the Sole Support insoles.

    Don, will you be putting these three patient reports into the testimonial section of your Sole Support website? http://www.solesupports.com/testimonials.htm
    I think this would be the only medically ethical thing to do especially considering the fact that the Sole Supports website does not list any patients who are more uncomfortable with your orthoses or have been hurt by your orthoses. In your testimonial section you also do not list any healthcare practitioners that have problems with the orthoses or with Dr. Glaser's opinions regarding foot biomechanics. Certainly these patients are out there since in the three patients I have seen, not a single one of them thought Sole Support insoles cured their pain, and one of them actually was getting worse on their previously asymptomatic foot from the use of your company's product.

    I don't know of any ethical physicians or ethical manufacturers of medical devices who have webpages that have only positive testimonials. The reason for this is that all intelligent healthcare professionals know that there is no perfect healthcare professional or perfect medical product. However, your testimonials give the lay audience that visit your website (and many ignorant health professionals) the distinct impression that Sole Support insoles work for everybody and are superior to all other orthoses in all instances. However, in the small sampling of patients that I have seen with Sole Support insoles, I have not seen that they are the cure-all that your website proposes them to be.

    There are laws that prevent drug companies from marketing their prescription products with only positive endorsements from customers, without also listing their potential common side effects. I wonder if the same laws apply to other types of companies that supply products that can only be purchased with a doctor's prescription, such as prescription foot orthoses?? I believe that a company that makes products that can only be dispensed to a patient with a doctor's prescription, and that then advertises only positive endorsements from customers without making any disclaimers about the potential deletorious side-effects from the use of these products, may have some serious explaining to do regarding the medical ethics and/or legality of their advertising policy.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2006
  4. asyrja

    asyrja Welcome New Poster

    Sole Supports

    Kevin, it was actually my idea to have other providers using our theories and technology post, I thought it would be good for others to know about this site and read the debates going on about the products they are using. I have changed my mind to forward them this link.

    I don't find what you have said to be holding true...

    "We just seem to do things quite differently but I think we do share the common goal of wanting to make the patient better at the end of the day.

    I have spent the last 21 years of my life educating podiatrists on how to make their patients better, fighting the traditional biomechanical teachings at podiatric medical colleges, and trying to develop better theory and techniques for the profession.

    I am interested in any research that you and your company can do to accelerate the intellectual growth of the profession and am interested in any contributions you and your company can make toward improving foot orthosis design techniques for all podiatrists that use all foot orthosis labs."

    Our providers dispense 4500 pairs of orthotics every month, and ofcourse they use other products. Their contributions would have been of value here, but what is the point with so many patronizing responses? If you were really interested developing better theory and techniques for the profession, you wouldn't be so quick to stifle the contributions of others with new ideas.

    Ed will continue to go toe to toe with you on this site (as I know he has a good time with it all as well), you will see many published papers about our theories and technology, we will continue to help people just as you do, we will continue to grow and learn - that is the only constant around Sole Supports.
  5. Asyrja:

    I appreciate your opinions. However, anytime that a company representative, whether it is you or Ed or Don or Stu or any others that work for Sole Supports, make a statement about the company and/or its product, I feel like it is just another free advertisement that you are making for the company. I am not the only one that shares that same opinion on Podiatry Arena.

    It is interesting that all the podiatrists that I have talked to that have attempted to sit through one of Ed's talks at the seminars he pays to speak at have told me that is was like an "infomercial" for Sole Supports. This does not surprise me since this is the way he comes across on this academic podiatric website when he talks about how orthoses "should be made" and how only Sole Support orthoses are "functional". It really is quite entertaining to see how he carries on, quite oblivious to how he sounds to the rest of us.

    This is really too bad for Ed and his ideas since the podiatrists/biomechanists who have convinced me I was wrong in some of my ideas, using intellectual reasoning rather than blatant advertising to sell their product, such as Eric Fuller, Chris Nester, Simon Spooner, Craig Payne, Benno Nigg, Howard Dananberg, and Bart VanGheluwe have become very good friends of mine. In fact, I comment on the importance of their work in my lectures and I respect them greatly. Maybe if Ed would have first published paper a paper or two in a peer-reviewed journal (as my colleagues above have) instead of mailing DVDs, giving informercials, and writing self-serving articles that promote his company, I would think of him differently. However, Ed has voluntarily chosen the commercial path he has taken and there is nothing I can do about it.

    Have a nice week.
  6. Don Bursch

    Don Bursch Member

    I asked that "experienced users" of Sole Supports reply to this thread. Why are Kevin and Simon posting?

    You two love to put us down for having a commercial interest, but all of us prescribing orthoses are 'selling' their expertise, at least indirectly, to either their patients or other colleagues. Maybe you have a vested interest in appearing to be an expert? Maybe that compromises your objectivity when you imperiously weigh in on nearly every thread on this arena. We don't butt in on your posts casting doubts on your motives.

    We get it that you don't like anything about Sole Supports -no more reminders necessary, thanks.

    We have been up front and honest about our business associations. So why don't you offer mere silence unless you have something constructive to add to the conversation.
  7. LCBL

    LCBL Active Member

    Surely you know who you 'customers' are and can approach them directly? What is the reason you need to achieve this feedback in a public forum?
  8. First of all, Don, you never said anything about "experienced" users, you only said:

    My three patients who were attempting to wear Sole Supports, and the one being injured by them, are "users" of Sole Supports. Have you included them in your testimonials yet? I won't hold my breath.

    By the way, unlike your business partner at Sole Supports, I have never paid anyone to lecture and don't intend on ever paying anyone so I can have the opportunity to lecture at seminars, they only pay me.

    I only butt in when I smell blatant advertising occurring on an academic website.

    Quite the contrary, I like Sole Supports since they make my orthoses look that much better. You know, Don, many practitioners and foot orthosis companies get good results with foot orthoses but you don't see them attempting to advertise on this academic website, do you?

    Don, it would be nice if you would only offer something on this website that is not meant to increase your company's bottom line. I haven't seen you yet write anything academic. Have you ever published anything before that you could share with us? (hopefully something that doesn't somehow advertise a product??) I would enjoy reading an academic contribution from you, but many of us are getting very tired of the continual sales pitch for Sole Supports that seems to come from you and Ed.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2006
  9. Jamie

    Jamie Active Member


    I have been watching this exchange and your posts for a while. I have some experience of marketing and the Podiatry Profession perhaps I could offer some relatively friendly advice.

    This is an International Web Forum. Perhaps the increasing frustration at Sole Supports' self publicity that comes back to you from users is because the majority of users are not American and uncomfortable with the excesses of American commercial marketing practices.

    British, Irish and Australian people are generally less open to Marketing wiles than in America and to us overt commercialism on a not-for-Profit website is unedifying and offputting.

    You may make some very valid points about your insoles but there are other Brands and Ranges of insoles that may well do a better job. So far other suppliers have had the courtesy not to compete to beat their chests louder than yourselves.

    Perhaps Admin should start a new section on this site to allow overt commercial postings. Forum Users can then choose posts at their own discretion and can treat like Junk Mail and ignore if they want to. Unwanted Commercial Input can then be moved without offense into this Section.

    As a cautionary tale from another thread I believe Professor Rothbarts insoles are a perfectly acceptable device to use for certain conditions. I am also aware that Professor Rothbart's over enthusiasm for his concept and therefore his product has been damaging to his sales in the UK.

    I wish you the best of luck for your product in the future. If I wish to find out more then I will look at your own website and perhaps the more favourable forum of your own that you are perfectly free to set up for yourselves.

    Kind Rgds

    Jamie :cool:
  10. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks Jamie - on that note, I will close this thread down.
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