LGBT Community for SOCAP

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Dear All,

My name is Dr Christopher Morriss-Roberts (Senior Lecturer of Podiatry,) and I am involved with SOCAP for developing a LGBT forum for Podiatrists.

My main reason for posting here is to ask, who out there would be interested in becoming involved in an LGBT network for Podiatrists? Possibly to share ideas, possibly to become involved in Gay Pride, or seriously considering the TUC aspects of LGBT in the work place.

The idea is to develop a positive network of LGBT Podiatry peers.

Post your thoughts here or contact me at c.morriss-roberts@brighton.ac.uk

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Kindest,

Chris

 

Doesn't the Equality Act 2010 negate the need for such a forum? Indeed, isn't the creation of such a forum in breach of the Equality Act unless the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists plans to create a specific forum for heterosexually orientated members too? Do you know if SOCAP are looking to create positive networks aimed specifically at heterosexual/ male/ female podiatry peers via separate forums for such member groups?

No bias, just interested in anti-discrimination law and as to where my fees are being spent. Personally, I do not think that separatism is the way forward.

 

I work for the NHS and we are fortunate to have a whole variety of policies in place and I do think there is equality in all areas in my work place. That sadly may not be the case for every podiatrist in every work place. Any additional groups that can help positively promote discussion, interaction and meet members needs has to be a good thing.
Other professional organisations such as the Police and Fire Service have successful LGBT groups and there is no reason not to explore this type of thing for the Podiatry profession. Again, anything that highlights the profession has to be a good thing and to have a group of LGBT podiatrist, friends, family and colleagues at a Pride would seem to be a very beneficial thing for all, fun too!
Sometimes we as individuals have needs or concerns and those with similar experiences may be best to offer support, LGBT issues could be one of these.
A social and networking side could be developed for LGBT members and anyone else that wished to attend. There is no need to be separatist and the more we interact and support each other the more beneficial it will be to all.
Funds are tight and we should spend them wisely. I pay for my social activities as we all do and any group organising social and supportive events would expect to pay their way.
It is fantastic that we are able to express an interest in this topic. If there is a need, let’s meet it. If there is not a need then let’s celebrate that there is no need, after all it has not always been so.
I would be happy in being involved and socialising with a LGBT group and any straight friends or colleagues that would like to join in. Please keep me informed.
David Walker

 

I think SOCAP should have a forum specifically for podiatrists afflicted with a yam-yam accent and dialect. Maybe they should have one specifically for left handed Podiatrists too? In all seriousness, there is way too much separatism within the profession here in the UK without further promotion of segregation. I'd rather the money were spent on professional unification and protection of the role and scope of practice.

 

Just to clarify, no SOCAP money is being spent on this.....

 

In which case, I'd modify my previous post to read: "there is way too much separatism within the profession here in the UK without further promotion of segregation. I'd rather the time and effort were spent on professional unification and protection of the role and scope of practice". Although I doubt the establishment of any forum by SOCAP should be completely gratis in monetary terms when one analyses it, I will take your word for it.

 

Sandwiches need protecting too...
http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/protect-your-sandwich-with-the-anti-theft-lunch-bag.html

Actually, I agree that there is already too much segregation within our profession. Which reminds me, I must make reply to Debbie Delves regarding research in private practice. Something that the Society would do well to spend time and effort on, IMO.

 

Indeed, I should imagine many rolls and sandwiches were supplied and eaten at Fell Mongers Path when the formation of an LGBT forum was tabled and discussed, all of which were of course free to the membership, along with the expenses which were claimed by those attending the meeting which also came at no expense to the membership . I wonder when the Council last considered a move to obtain protection of role? You know what I meant

 

I do, but I couldn`t resist. Sorry.

 

Not that it affects me as I obviously not in the UK (at least not this week!), but I don't have a problem with this. If there are a group of people within any professional organisation that wants to form a support group for people in an area (whether if be LGBT or part time podiatrists with large families or drug addicted podiatrists or those who have special interest in a clinical area or whatever), then why not? It is not as though resources are being diverted from, for eg, a political initiative to resource it.

Not directly relevant, but I recall a discussion we had many many yrs ago (I could not find it on a quick search) on support available to drug impaired podiatrists. What I recall and what struck me most from that discussion was the punitive way that so many in podiatry wanted to deal with these people. Yet in other professions (medicine, dentistry, nursing etc), there were support groups and procedures in place to help these people and keep them in the professions .... yet in podiatry "we" seemed to want to get rid of them .... I could not figure this one out.

If people want to volunteer to form a support group under the auspices of a national organisation for any issue that a group of people have in common, then why not? If its going to help things like job satisfaction, problem solving skills, dissemination of resources, etc, then that can only be a good thing and increase job satisfaction and retention of members and retention of people in the profession.

 

If it's really not going to divert any resources then I suspect few would really care. What needs to be demonstrated is that it is not going to divert any resources. To re-iterate, in my opinion there are already too many separatist groups within podiatry in the UK, I would like to see greater efforts to draw the groups together, not to add further layers of separatism; whether they be for the surgically orientated, the biomechanically orientated or the gay, lesbian, straight, bisexual or any other orientated. I'd rather see one representative group and the UK podiatry profession united and moving forward as one in accordance with the Equality Act 2010. United we stand, divided we fall.

 

No-one here has expressed a homophobic opinion, Craig. Rather, the discussion has focussed upon the Equality Act 2010 and the use of resources by SOCAP.

 

`tis the only way forward and work towards a more unified profession.

Indeed :drinks

 

After many years in the profession I have come across individuals with all sorts of preferences, from philately to sexual, all have been accepted on their worth to the profession.

I would not be keen to see sub groups for stamp collectors and their problems and fears or homosexuals and their problems and fears !

Our society is more open and accepting than most, let`s not create divisions, for what ? (hope I`m not labelled a philatophobe or homophobe).

 

Really???

I can`t see any prejudice remarks here, either.

 

It was my post that was deleted, therefore I guess it was the subject of a complaint. I hope my remarks were not taken as homophobic or inflammatory, they were not intended as such and I apologise if anyone took offence. I agree with most of the comments on this thread - any further division and sub-groups with subjects far removed from podiatry - such as one's sexuality or religion, have no place in a professional body like the Society. I would have thought that obvious.

Which is what my original post said, but rather more diplomatically and eloquently. Thank you, Kevin.

 

I see no problem with a group of podiatrists forming a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transexual (LGBT) club or organization on their own just so long as they do so with their own resources and don't expect funding from the parent podiatric organization to do so. Mutual support and interests among the members of the organization may foster new friendships among colleagues and help to provide an organization that would allow them to better meet and support causes and plan activities that are appropriate to their interests.

However, I would be opposed to a LBGT club or organization expecting funding from the parent podiatric organization just as I would be opposed to any other group of podiatrists expecting funding for a club or organization that they formed for the purposes of sharing mutual interests. In other words, if the LBGT club or organization expected funding, then the Running Podiatrist's Club, or Rock Climbing Podiatrist's Club, or Asian Podiatrist's Club, or Ukranian Podiatrist's Club or Atheist Podiatrist's Club should also be entitled to equal funding. I believe this would be problematic and a needless waste of financial resources and would, in the end, create animosity among the non-LBGT podiatrists who are subsidizing this club or organization.

It is an interesting concept. However, even in San Francisco at CCPM during the early 1980s where we had a number of gay and lesbian students and faculty while I was in podiatry school, there was never such an organization.

Just my tuppence from across the pond.:drinks

 

This is a genuine attempt to receive some informed education so please do not see it in any other way.

Why does being LGBT have any impact/relevance on being a podiatrist?
Surely if you belong to the above group there are plenty of opportunities outside of work to share ideas etc We all have outside interests that may overlap our work e.g. sports groups but do we need to have a special group?
In podiatry we have MSK groups, Diabetes interest groups etc and I don't see how being LGBT would influence you participation in anyway.

Again I happy to be educated and have no LGBT-phobia agenda.

Phil

 

What a world we live in when rational arguments laid out above are apparently seen as homphobic.

I do go along with the concept that the profession is already fragmented in the UK and that is largely due (IMHO) to the Society wishing to take over the entire profession - an ambition, again IMHO, which they are totally unfitted to do. I note that the OP does not invite members of the Society only, via their own communication systems, but 'everyone' who may be interested. Is this then yet another surreptitious recruiting campaign by the Society?

All the best (to everyone - homo or hetro!)

Bill Liggins

 

There may not be a need for or an interest in a LGBT group. It is great we are talking about it. Who any of us choose to share our lives with doesn’t stop us from being involved in any areas of our podiatry work or training or special interests. If we are part of the LGBT community there may be more specific problems relating to discrimination coming from an often older patient group that we work with and in how we build relationship with our patients. Maybe there could even be a financial implication on our private practices, and for those in private practice there may not be the support of the equal opportunity policies we enjoy in the NHS.

A group may or may not be established. It may or may not provide something very beneficial to those involved and the Society as a whole, but let us seize the opportunity to find out. If it’s not your bag, you don’t need to be involved. If others are benefiting and enjoying it in some way then you can just be glad that something useful, enjoyable and productive is happening for other.

I don’t know if the Society have an unseen agenda but at least they are trying. It’s easy to do nothing. It’s easy to complain, however surely it must be better to try even if you fail than never to have tried in the first place.

If anyone is interested in giving this LGBT thing a try let Chris know and we will see where we go from here.
Best wishes
David

www.podiatrypluscorby.co.uk

 

Sorry I'm a little late on this one. I missed the bus.

I don't like to leave ends untied especially when the answer seems so blindingly obvious and so simple.

How about making the group slightly more inclusive and calling it the LGBTH group? That way problem solved and if someone's still concerned that some sub-group, eg left-handers is not included simply call the group LGBTH Inc group.

Job done?

Bill

PS Personally I think that the new group should bend over backwards to let as many people in as possible but that in itself might constitute a new sub group or is it just a technical point? Nothing's simple these days.

 

DEAR All,

If this goes forward then I feel there should be a group specifically to look to the interests of Hetero Sexuals so that we can ensure that we are not prejudiced against.

Surely there is enough legislation and policies and guidelines without adding to this.

Ones sexuality and sexual practice should be left at home, and NOT brought into the workplace.

We are all Health Professionals and should unite under that single title, and not look for minutiae with which to create additional problems.

As for meeting ignorant bigots in the workplace a simple polite retort usually suffices when dealing with any form of prejudice.

The only prejudice I have met over 20 odd years has been from female pts when they see me and are surprised that I am of the male gender, as they usually see a female member of staff.

So it is a NO for me.

David

 

On the basis of the prejudicial incidents, I thought it might be YES!

 

IF THERE IS ANY PROFESSION IN THE WORLD THAT DOES NOT NEED FURTHER DIVISION.........IT IS THIS ONE :wacko:

HOW YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH PODIATRY IS BEYOND ME??

EITHER YOU CAN DO THE JOB OR YOU CANT:deadhorse: IRRESPECTIVE OF YOU SEXUAL PREFERENCES BADGES ON YOUR CHEST OR WHATEVER.

GET A LIFE AND GET ON WITH IT ! UNIFY THE PROFESSION DONT DIVIDE IT EVEN MORE. I HAVE HAD 25 YEARS OF SEPRATISM, PREDJUSICE AND FRANKLY RAW HATRED

Please just get on with the job as you are , whatever/ however that may be.......:drinks
Cheers
D

 

DTT,

I love the saying at the bottom of your page giving a marvellous description of Political Correctness.

I have always been looking for this to describe a motivated NHS managers desire to achieve the impossible. I can just see a committee with its goal as

Searching for the clean end of the TURD:bash:

No obsatcles are insurmountable

Thanks for the laugh:drinks

David

 

I've been rather surprised with the use of some words used in this thread. Fragmented, division, separatist, separatism, segregation and sub groups. I've never experienced that. Maybe there are more of you out there who need to be bending over backwards! Come on folks, lets work together to benefit everyone, and the profession.
David

 

LGBTH inc. group. The lesbian, gay, bisexual, transexual, heterosexual, inclusive group.

Just a slight modification to the LGBT group and it's problem solved or can true acceptance only come if this group (LGBT)stands together apart, so to speak. At least for a period of time?

Bill

 

Bill, I would happily join this group with you. Progress I think. I look forward to meeting you. David

 

Indeed.

David, can you explain how a sub-group of the society of chiropodists and podiatrists aimed specifically for lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transvestites will benefit everyone? Take me for example, I am neither a lesbian, gay, bisexual or transvestite, so how exactly is this to the benefit of me (or any other heterosexual member of the Society)?

Can you explain how creating a further sub-division within the Society membership is not a "fragmentation" or move toward "separatism" within our already disjointed profession?

 

All

Again

What possible difference can a sexual orientation have on podiatry

If a boys / girls whatever club is desired do it in your own time ...no worries but please DONT divide this profession with more PC garbage on the way.

As an IPP , I do not want to be further irritated by patients requesting only gay practitioners because they have read somewhere they exist.

I'm not a member of the SCP so I cant comment on that side BUT the impact on IPP's, I think could have an impact on our practise because the information is out there.

Just my thoughts
Cheers
D

 

To the extent that sexual orientation affects a person's way of being in the world; their way of presenting themselves to others; their level of confidence; their sense of self worth; their personal acceptance and acceptance by others etc, it is important to speak about it, discuss it and make it a public debate.

Because podiatrists have different sexual orientations and are involved with patients/clients and others of different sexual orientations it will impact upon podiatry at least at the level of interpersonal interactions and in other ways that are affected by sense of self worth; level of confidence; sense of personal adequacy, etc..

Bill

 

In the many years I have been in practice I have Tx all the range of sexual orientated people of all colours, creeds and religions. I made not one iota of difference to me as a clinician. They are a patient with a clinical need that I treat, the rest is irrelevant. I am heterosexual which also makes no difference to my clinical skills or objectives in Tx.

Being old fashioned and rather direct in my approach shouldn't all the effects on a persons way of life be sorted out "in training" as to their suitability for the profession and to impart the knowledge of what is required of them ?

I get heartily fed up with people that come into a particular job knowing full well what is required and once in there the PC garbage starts which is in the main part an expensive time wasting exercise IMO .

If someone wants to debate their sexual orientation with others fine I don't have a problem with that BUT it has no relevance to their capability as a podiatrist and should be kept outside of the profession again IMO.

I'm sure there are many gay/ lesbian etc forums that people can air their views with like minded others and clubs that do the same. I see all this division as detrimental to the profession in this country as the last thing we need is even more separatism and fragmentation of an already broken profession which I think will just add to our woe's.
Again just my thoughts
Cheers
D

 

http://lgbtqhealth.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/0/4/12049700/lgbq_occupational_therapists.pdf

http://www.csp.org.uk/frontline/article/high-profile-csp’s-lgbt-campaigners

http://www.csp.org.uk/tagged/lgbt

http://www.csp.org.uk/frontline/article/taking-homophobia-seriously

http://www.rcn.org.uk/newsevents/congress/2013/monday/event_rcn_lgbt_network_meeting

http://www.healthwithpride.nhs.uk/miscellaneous/professionals/

http://unison.org.uk/about/our-organisation/member-groups/lgbt/resources

https://unison.org.uk/upload/sharepoint/On line Catalogue/21529.pdf

http://www.thelgbtnetwork.org.uk/about-us

http://gay-police.eu/about-us/

http://www.gladd.moonfruit.com

http://www.lgbt-healthinequalities....of Doctors and Dentists/Dignity_at_work04.pdf

http://www.fbulgbt.org.uk

http://www.teachers.org.uk/lgbt

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/aboutkings/governance/equality/networks/lgbt/index.aspx

http://www.stonewall.org.uk/what_we_do/research_and_policy/health_and_healthcare/

http://www.healthwithpride.nhs.uk/miscellaneous/professionals/

http://lgbtot.blogspot.co.uk

 

A good example of systemic parochial separatism that adds little to today's society. Chris, I'm tempted to say "get over it!" - I've never felt the need to celebrate or extoll my sexuality, especially in the workplace, nor do I feel the need to join or promote a group defined by those who share my sexual orientation. Just because other organisations indulge such silliness, doesn't mean the Society - from an ex-member's point of view - should follow suit. Reading the various contributions on this thread will be a salutary lesson for you, I'm sure.

All the best

 

Agreed Mark, but as I pointed out elsewhere, Chris is not inviting just members of the Society (of which he is one), he is inviting all who share his proclivities to be a member of a Society organised group. I do not doubt his honesty, and he states that the Society have no hidden recruitment agenda, but you know that organisation even better than I! Could this be a cynical manipulation of Chris and his potential members?

All the best

Bill

 

I'm not sure cynical is the best word. Any membership organisation will rightly consider the impact of its policies on potential recruitment. It would be foolish to do otherwise. If a LGBT group is up for discussion, its impact on recruitment will also have been considered. For me the important issue is what has been alluded to by other correspondents including your good self - that of promoting separatism and division.

 

I believe this thread started with a question to ask if there was an interest in Developing a LGBT forum. I presume that as the thread has been viewed over 1500 times there must be some kind of interest. That is a lot of views.

Simon, When a society with a diverse membership meet the needs of those members they become more valued, fulfilled and productive. When people are valued etc they do benefit the organisation they are part of and their customer base. This is a well established workplace model, a happy workforce is a productive work force. For you to be part of a more fulfilled society/profession and a more productive one has to bring benefit to all, that means you too. The profession you are part of will be promoted and publicity is a good thing for our practices and making the public more aware of podiatry. You have already benefitted from your interest and participation in this thread. You could benefit further from the knowledge that you are helping to support your colleagues. You have also benefitted from learning that the 'T' is transgender, not transvestite, which is different and offensive. If you can't see any other benefit to you, maybe you need to look harder or from a different angle. If all that fails, you are benefitting by accruing CPD points.


Thankfully I have not been aware of a disjointed profession. By creating any targeted activity, product, social event, advertising, sales or promotion does not cause fragmentation. Rather it shows foresight in meeting specific needs and achieving specific goals . Targeting shows thought and planning and helps to achieve the greater goal. All members being valued and developed. Patients being better served. Private practices growing and the profession being promoted. We all, in our practices target specific areas, in slightly different ways, but all our planning is to achieve the overall best for everyone.

Hope this helps,
David.

 

Gay practitioners do exist. So do LDT, probably all sorts of other labels. Sorry if that's a shock, but thankful that the forum has enlightened you. And if this knowledge concerns you to the point you think it may have a 'negative' impact on your private practice, then that to me raises more of a concern that may need addressing and a LGBT may be a good starting point. Thank you for highlighting this concern.

 

I think it is better to see more than the corn or the foot. It is very relevant to see the patient as a person, as a whole. The holistic approach benefits the patient and can achieve a better treatment outcome. I want the best outcome for all my patients, they are people and people are not irrelevant.


You may do well to consider that people develop and change, and have different life experiences after training that change their priorities or concerns. It's not the knowledge of PC garbage, more life experiences and personal growth that bring about change. There may be podiatrists that are yet to recognise that they are LGBT, or are yet to make that known, who will benefit from the support of their fellow professionals.

I want to thank you all. I've never been involved in a forum before. The amount of interest has been great. I think post #32 made valuable comments.

Should anyone want to chat further I am more than willing to do so beyond this forum
David.