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What do you recommend to clients for Athlete's Foot?

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by aff-x.com, Nov 16, 2010.

  1. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    I just said a little about me in the introduction room so if you're looking for some background it can be found there. I've been reading through the forums all about foot fungus.

    I'm curious to know what the most common recommendations are by professionals for Athlete's Foot. Any and all responses welcome, even critical ones :boxing: :D If you have time to answer just one of these please help with #5.

    1. How often do you see people with Athlete's Foot in your practice?

    2. What product do you recommend for mild and extreme cases and what made you pick them?

    3. Does it always work, if not why?

    4. How long is the treatment period?

    5. What would convince you to use another product?

    I am looking for a way to help... so if you can help me help people with Athlete's Foot it would be appreciated :) Right now we are testing to see how effective our product is on nail fungus. A very stubborn problem as you all know. It's incredible on fungus associated with Athlete's Foot compared to what is currently on the market. Lamisil seems to be the goto as far as we can tell. But, we're not the pros :D

  2. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    And here are some before and after shots. This was three 30 minute foot soaks one a day. We're finding that we can probably get away with two treatments and possibly even one.

    The itching goes away after the first treatment. We've been doing three to make sure we get everything.

    The after shots are one week later you can see the dead skin in the middle pic and then it was cleaned away in the last pic.


    This was with one treatment and after pic was taken three weeks later. All itchiness gone and appears to be healing nicely. This is the same foot with which we are testing our effects on nail fungus...so after pictures wont be for quite a while. We're keeping our fingers crossed though.


  3. footsiegirl

    footsiegirl Active Member

    Did I miss something? What is the foot solution/treatment you are using?
  4. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    Lol I guess I made the assumption everyone would read my post in the introduction room. I should know better, I never venture into those areas on the forums I frequent :)

    It's a new product that isn't on the market yet. It will be available online as soon as we get our production figured out, we're hoping January 2011.

    I'm here to find out what professionals in this field think about a product with these results and if it's better than the options currently available. We think so but are obviously completely biased :D And, what factors would make you buy it or recommend it? Maybe even some opinions on the the best places to market it. Again, we have our ideas about all of this but know that there would be some very valid opinions here.
  5. Most people here will want to see a peer review study done and written up in a quality Journal. A couple of pictures and a this stuff is great won´t cut the mustard.

    Get some proper independent evidence that this product is better than x,y, and z and better than a control group and people maybe interested.
  6. Griff

    Griff Moderator


    I'm no dermatology specialist by any stretch (hopefully Bel will pitch in soon), but do have a few questions. As Mike says, us folk here are rather keen on evidence. Evidence of controlled trials which have been published. A few before and after pics with a result that a patient could probably get with any astringent such as a £3 bottle of surgical spirit aint gonna wow us I'm afraid.

    If you actually want to discuss this product, and you want opinions from individuals on here then you will have to tell us something. We hear about 'amazing' new products all the time but the clandestine approach to marketing won't leave us intruiged and wanting to know more. We'll just forget about you and reach for the Lamisil.

    Why don't you tell us something about it? What is the active ingredient? Is it fungistatic or fungicidal? What makes it better than current medicaments available? And many many more... but they'll do for starters.

    EDIT: I did look at the 'science' bit of your website also: http://www.aff-x.com/thescience.html Maybe I clicked on the wrong link as I couldn't find much science?

  7. Deborah Ferguson

    Deborah Ferguson Active Member

    Looking at the time span photos ie. 3 weeks it doesn't seem to work any quicker than regular `Canestan`(clotrimazole) which is £2.99 a tube as opposed to $20 ( sorry don't know the exchange rate for £ to $ ).
    Are there published clinical trials ?


  8. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    Deborah and everyone thanks for your responses. In the second set of pictures it was one 30 minute tx that is all. The picture was taken 3 weeks later as follow up after the tx with no additional care.

    These were the exact posts I was hoping for. Very much appreciated. The website has been dulled down because our plan wasn't to target podiatrists or professionals initially. Our research has shown that to most average people a published paper means nothing because they have been duped before. They also see no difference between the articles in a medical journal and a health magazine. I think the laser treatment is a good example. Not to say it doesn't work, I have had no experience with it, but they started without papers. Provillus is the same for hair regrowth, I don't think they have ever had a paper nor am I sure if the product works. And even some of the published papers I've read here saying that xxx was "as good as topical treatments" for nail fungus...ie. not. Unfortunately these are some of the few reasons why the average person especially gen Y doesn't hold much value in what people's "science" says anymore. Peer reviewed or not, for them it comes down to testimonials and before after pictures and what their friend John experienced using the product. Twitter, Facebook, Youtube accounts of it working and how much money they are willing to risk if it doesn't work.

    Thank you very much for answering the question. Professionals would like to see a peer reviewed paper before purchasing is what I'm hearing. At a price point of $20 there isn't much of a risk to try it. I thought that might have some bearing.

    We licensed the patented technology based off of some very strong in vitro studies. We are currently in the process of contracting a University group to run trials.

    Submitting a paper takes time and money. As I'm sure many of you know who have submitted papers. We wanted to get the business going so that we would already have product ready for sale before the paper is submitted, something many people don't do. Exciting paper....nothing to sell till a year or two later when people have forgotten about it. Or, they spent all their money on the paper and have none left to start the business. Or, their business is research not selling a product.

    We wanted to have the product available for the "early adopters" not needing a paper. To focus on you as professionals:

    What journals would you recommend we have them submit to? What are the credible journals you'd like to see the results appear in?

    Thanks, any and all responses welcome.

  9. Griff

    Griff Moderator


    Those questions again:

  10. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    Thanks for keeping me focused Ian.

    It is fungicidal at all stages of growth including spores. So the in vitro studies show. Nothing else that we know of on the market seems to be effective at killing the spores of fungi, the reason we believe typical treatment periods to be so long.

    The active ingredient is a molecule the body creates on its own as a natural defense against bacteria and fungi. When you mix the two powders in water it creates a perfected concentration of this molecule. This molecule is extremely small and can pass unhindered through cell walls of microbes. Once inside, they attack and disable the basic life support and reproductive systems in bacteria and fungi. So I suppose you could say it is both fungicidal and fungistatic.

    We think it's better because our research shows it is fungicidal to spores and works incredibly fast. It is also in a way using the bodies natural defense instead of chemicals. And for you podiatrists there is no prescription needed. Which means maybe you'll have more GP's referring to you for extreme cases instead of the other way around. All other treatments over the counter and prescribed take a very long time to work that we know of. Twice a day for 3 weeks, 1 week for the good stuff. And the really good oral stuff comes with its side effects. The first set of pictures above is 3 days, 30 minute foot soaks/day which we think may be overkill.

    The second set of pictures is one day 30 minute foot soak.

    We are inherently lazy....not all of us but many of us :D
    For someone with Athlete's Foot. Is it more likely for a patient to do one 30 minute foot soak (could be done at your practice) or to apply cream twice a day for 3 weeks, heck or a week?

    Or for a bad case 3 30 minute foot soaks vs cream twice a day for 3 weeks.

    I think the better question is: WHEN is a product fungicidal? Our answer is at all stages of growth based on our in vitro studies.

    Is that a helpful start? Sorry for the bold it's just there for the folks that don't want to read through everything.
  11. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Does it have a name?
  12. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    I knew that was coming. Of course it has a name. Let me talk it over and see if we want to let that out of the bag. I don't see any reason why not, but I'd like to double check first.

  13. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    I don't see any reason why not either. You do not have ownership of a molecule that we all create ourselves, and as your website says - you have 'patented the science' behind Athletes Foot Fungus X. If you are doing clinical trials, which you will submit for publication then you will have to disclose this 'secret' anyway. I'm not sure many potential customers of yours would buy your product when your online store opens in a month or so if they do not know what is in it would they?

    Good luck with your business.
  14. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Hi Jo,

    I read your introduction and do have a few questions. You summarise your intro with;

    In a word; no. I know of many substances that will destroy fungus, most of which I would not put into contact with skin, household bleach being one of them. (See Mr Weber, no mention of TTO).

    You are obviously very excited about this new product....and I genuinely wish you well in your venture...however, you can hear the `but` cant you? How is it `proving to be better` than medicines which are licensed for safe use in treatment of tinea? Do you have any published evidence to support this statement? I will join the throngs and say “Show us the evidence”.

    It is difficult to answer your five questions as treatment of Tinea Pedis (TP) depends upon the patients medical history, previous treatments, concordance, ability to self treat, predisposing factors, underlying systemic conditions, secondary infection, etc. Each patient is treated individually, according to their expected outcomes, and needs. I can confirm that I will only recommend evidence based medicine as all treatment plans should be safe, legal and effective.

    OK, maybe you are trying to present your findings to us as a kind of case series/photo shots. That`s all well and good, if you are examining an existing licensed product for treatment of TP. However, you are a little cagey about what exactly this product is that you are presenting to us, so I`m sure you can understand why we are asking for more information before we can offer an opinion.

    Ian has asked some pertinent questions; I too would like to know the pharmacokinetic nature of this product.....and which ingredient leaves a yellow stain on your skin? You say the website has been “dulled down” . Maybe you werent targeting professionals but Jo Public often asks what the active ingredient is in any medicine, if only to rule out possible allergy/contraindications.

    There may be relatively little monetary risk. As I said at the beginning of my post; there are many `effective` anti-fungal preparations out there (which will also induce side effects, such as paronychia, dermatitis, etc) but that does not render them safe.

    It is true that publishing credible evidence does take time, money and hard work, and I wish you well in your research. The university that agrees to undertake the RCT`s will be able to recommend which journals your data would best be published in.

    Ask yourself why this is. As `professionals` do you think we should recommend an unkown product that has not been rigorously tested for its safety?

    Anti-fungal agents are divided into fungicidal, those that kill the fungi, or fungistatic, those that render fungi unable to grow or divide. What you have just described falls into the latter; fungistatic. Research has shown that recurrence and relapse following discontinuation of TP treatment have been found to be more common with fungistatic agents because therapeutic effect relies on the skin cell turnover to work. Which is why the allylamines, benzylamines and clotrimazole (all fungicidals) are preferred tx options.

    I look forward to your response to Ian`s question; what is this mystery molecule? Now if you were to tell me it is one of the anti-microbial peptides which is being researched as we speak.....I`m interested!

  15. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    Fantastic response and my apologies if my excitement comes across irritating. I am being very vague about the working molecule because the product is not yet available for purchase. Yes the technology is patented however we'd like to be in the market before there is an opportunity for copy cats. Patent or not there are always people looking to make a buck off of others hard work.

    I am an ex Financial Advisor...still licensed but pursuing this venture at the moment. I completely understand that from an ethical standpoint you need to have published papers to back your recommendations and CYA. Similarly, I would expect some substantial information behind an investment option for my due diligence before recommending it to a client. I get that.

    I would not consider this to be fugistatic. If it were, then the treated contaminated beads in our studies would have shown growth after being removed from the treatment, plated, and incubated in an ideal growing environment. They did not, which would suggest that it is fungicidal.

    And no my background doesn't suggest I know anything about science and I don't claim to however I did work as an assistant lab tech for two years while in Uni so it's not all completely lost on me :)

    I will get back this evening with a response on the molecule. I'm eager to hear the thought on it.

  16. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    Here's the abstract from the most recent presentation at ICAR (International Conference on Antimicrobial Research). The molecule is Nitric Oxide.


    http://www.formatex.org/icar2010/acceptedabstracts.php search for author: Miller.

    Nitric-oxide-gas-releasing solution acting as an antifungal treatment against fungi associated with Tinea Pedis

    G. Regev1and C. C. Miller1,3

    1Infectious Diseases Division, Faculty of Medicine, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

    2Respiratory Division, Faculty of Medicine, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

    Introduction: Most cutaneous infections are the work of the homogeneous group of keratinophilic fungi known as dermatophytes. Tinea Pedis, also known as Athlete’s Foot, is a common problem and is probably the most common form of dermatophytosis. All currently available topical therapies require diligent daily applications for a prolonged period of time in order to be efficacious. The dermatophytes Trichophyton rubrum and Trichophyton mentagrophytes are the major cause of Tinea Pedis.

    Nitric oxide is a simple molecule produced in the body which acts as a non-selective broad range antimicrobial which is key to the innate immune system. Recently, it has become increasingly evident that this small gaseous molecule possesses antimicrobial effects on a wide range of microorganisms including bacteria, viruses, fungi and yeast.

    In this study we used nitric oxide releasing solution to eradicate fungi associated with clinical Tinea Pedis.

    Methods: A novel nitric oxide releasing solution (NORS) was donated (NSI Inc., Canada). Fungi (T. mentagrophytes and T. rubrum) were grown on plate to mycilial phase (24-48 hrs) or spore stage (5 days). Glass beads were placed in the plate, Shaken for 5 min, transferred media and grown at 30ºC for 24-48hrs. Then 100 µL of the diluted media was put into 3ml NORS at different strengths (A, B). After 30 min at 30ºC samples were plated and incubated. A similar experiment was repeated with beads covered with spores in NORS at 3 different strengths (A, B, C) and at 30 and 60 min at 37ºC.

    At mycelia phase – NORS at strength A had a significant reduction on all fungi tested while strength B eradicated all fungi. At spore phase – T. Mentagrophyte was eradicated after 30 min at strengths B and C and at all strengths after 60 min. T. Rubrum – was not eradicated after 30 min at all strengths but had a significant reduction at strength C and was completely eradicated after 60 min with strength C.

    This research suggests that a single 30-60 min exposure to NORS can be used as an effective antifungal agent to treat Tinea Pedis. These are promising results since this NORS may treat fungi both at the mycelia and spore phase with one single dose. Further studies are warranted and may have significant beneficial implications for a rapid single treatment for Athlete’s Foot.

    Key words: Tinea Pedis, nitric oxide, fungi
  17. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    For the science side of things here is some good reading. As requested articles published in reputable journals.

    Please read and then let me know if you would now buy the product. I'm hoping that this will generate some discussion now that there is more science in this thread.

    If you still wouldn't buy the product, why? I do understand that there are some people that will forever be stuck in their ways (not directed at anyone). You could have paper after paper after paper and never "convince" those folks. We feel like there is already enough research on this topic for a professional to make an educated decision to try or not to try. Also the reason why we haven't been in a hurry to submit a paper. We know it works, so do many others. Research is invaluable but what good is it if the consumer has no access to the results? We want to make them available to you so that you can help your patients.

    These articles should "prove" NO is antifungal and is safe to use as an antimicrobial and antifungal on humans, this is a well studied and known idea. There is no product available for purchase that we are aware of that specifically harnesses the properties of NO to treat Athlete's Foot and onychomycosis. That is what AFF-X does (the verdict is still out on onychomycosis but we are keeping our fingers crossed). It is a proprietary blend of natural ingredients that creates an NO rich solution.

    As far as safety goes:



    Specific to what we are doing:



    General fungicidal research using NO:



    If you are going to read one article this is the one you want to read.

    As far as onychomycosis goes and why we are testing with our product...


    Note that in a few of these studies yellowing of the nails was noticed and cleared soon after tx. This is the NO that has bonded with Oxygen to create NO2 which is known to have a yellow-brown colour. So in answer to an earlier question that is what it is.


  18. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Hi Joe,

    Thanks for the links. I`ll have a good read of them on Sunday as i`m gonna be occupied over the next couple of days....some fella from down under is popping over for a bevvie :drinks

  19. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    Thanks Bel, I look forward to your response. We've also just put up a page that we hope will sit a little better with professionals visiting our site. The direct link is http://aff-x.com/science.html

    It's not a main page from our menu bar at the top of the site but is a clear click through when visiting the "dulled" down science page. Hoping this is more helpful to you when visiting the site.

    We are currently having problems right now with our website host but they are assuring everything will be back to normal in a few hours. So my apologies for anyone experiencing trouble trying to access the site right now.

  20. aff-x.com

    aff-x.com Member

    Host is up and running again, all the articles and pages should be easily accessible.
  21. Elizabeth Humble-Thomas

    Elizabeth Humble-Thomas Active Member

    And the upshot was? (five years later...)

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