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30 frames per second enough for running?

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Sammo, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. Sammo

    Sammo Active Member

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    Hi Guys and gals,

    Without going too much into the whys and wherefores of it.. What are peoples impressions on 30 frames per second with regard to video gait analysis?

    I'm interested in the topic from both a clinical and research/education perspective. So is 30FPS enough for normal gait analysis or would one need more?

    Kind regards,

  2. Re: 30 FPS Enough?

    Depends what you plan to do with it, Sam. For day to day clinical use it'll probably work out; for research you may want more. Running analysis will benefit from a higher frame per second rate.

  3. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Re: 30 FPS Enough?

    All digital video's are 25 frames/sec..... except for my new boys toy, the Casio Exilim which does 1500 fps ... however only AFAIK, the Silicon Coach software is the only one that has a plugin to take the feed from the Exilim and they recommend not going over 300 fps as you start to loose quality.

  4. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Jonathan Hedges from MAR systems is pretty knowledgable on these things. I think his member name is Jonathan if you search on the member list for sending him a private message. If I have anything to ask about gait analysis, I ask him

    Company Website is


    You may have already spoken to him. Hope this helps

  5. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Here is 3 screen shots from 3 sequential frames taken from 25/frames a second. They only walking at 4km/hr

    Attached Files:

  6. Sammo

    Sammo Active Member

    Thanks for the info guys.

    It is just for in clinic gait analysis. Was looking into high speed camera's both industry standard (waaay to expensive) and camcorder types.

    A thought: Some of the camcorders available say they can records at a higher frame rate. If you are plugged directly into the computer this may/not be possible. However, what if you record onto the memory card then manually download the video file and play it through the analysis software. Will the video clip not be played back at that higher framerate?

    Many thanks, once again.

  7. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Depends on what software you use. I use Silicon Coach and that can be moded to play back at the higher rate. Also I got the Exilim on eBay for AUD$1100 which is not that bad (it also a bloody good SLR camera that can take 60 photos/second!)

    I doing a Boot Camp in Singapore (probably Sun and Mon 1 & 2 Aug - look for announcement in a few days) and will have it with me then.
  8. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel Active Member

    CP - how did you get those shots?
  9. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Just played a video in Silicon Coach and scrolled through one frame at a time and used the Snipping Tool that is part of Windows 7 to make a .jpg of each frame.

    (I probably could have picked a better video as the lighting in the one above is bad, but was in a hurry at that stage ... had to take the Arena'ette's swimming)
  10. Ninjasox

    Ninjasox Active Member

    Here's the camera specs required for silicon coach, http://www.siliconcoach.com/support/?page_id=272
    which seem a little bit outdated to be honest. If you need a hand just remember to wave a large flashlight in the sky and i'll be there in no time
  11. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

  12. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    We have also just received a couple of the Casio Cameras- they are great! I noticed a few coaches with them during the world indoor athletics titles- they have found a niche...
    We are now looking at software options and concur that you need to be aware that this camera creates .mov files and many of the analysis systems are not compatible. In addition to Siliconcoach, Quintic also supports the .mov files. http://www.quintic.com/software/
    On the Quintic website they note that the latest firmware update for the Casio allows for remote control from your through the USB2 port. They even suggest direct streaming, though I am not certain of this.
    If I understand correctly, one limitation with the latest video cameras is that they do not use firewire (unlike the miniDV tape cameras) and cannot be live streamed through a computer. You have to download from the camera and then analyse.
    Anyone else know of any other gait software systems that support the casio's .mov files?
  13. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    In addition I have been trying out Kinovea- http://www.kinovea.org/en/
    It seems to work quite well, and even better it is FREE!
    Have very quickly downloaded and viewed synchronised video taken from the Casio... simple!
  14. Ninjasox

    Ninjasox Active Member

    Like all technology, eventually everything is superceded, thus firewire is old hat. USB is the most prevalent interface today, hence most of todays camera's/camcorders are fitted with a usb port. The annoying thing is that each brand records in different formats, be it mp4, t2s, mov and so on. This makes it difficult if you want to import it into software that doesn't support it. Thankfully there's plenty of free software out there that will convert it for you.
    So if you're contemplating buying a new camera that doesn't have firewire, fear not.

    1. Record video on appropriate camera/camcorder
    2. Transfer file onto pc via usb
    3. Convert file into recognisable format for gait software
    4. Import file into gait software for analysis

    Live streaming is somewhat of a moot point, as you can observe gait on the camera's viewfinder, and then analyze further once imported. I don't see the point of remote control either, as you can change any of the settings on the camera itself, provided your not sitting ten feet away from it. Anyway its a case of the software developers having to play catch up with current hardware. No doubt later versions will have wider video file support, as well as interface options.

    To sum up, buy whatever camera you want, transfer to your pc, convert to a suitable format and hey presto!

    For once I almost feel like I know what i'm talking about after dusting off my nerd hat (having done that for quit a bit longer than in my current guise) as opposed to my shiny new podiatry one.
  15. Sammo

    Sammo Active Member

    My birthday..!

    You in town for the biomechanics congress?
  16. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    Hi all
    Just want to answer a few points
    1) if your recording is via a camcorder at 25/30fps (USA/Euro-Aus) good software (Templo, Dartfish, Silicon Coach, Quintic etc) will delace (split) the horizontal and vertical lines to provide you with 50/60 fps. In my experience this is okay for running if the shutter speed is 1/350 seconds above.
    2) Better for running is 200 fps. – but definition and shutter speed is key – a runner recordered at 200fps but with shutter speed of just 1/200 of a second - expect slightly blurry images
    3) Importing images via USB is painful slow process especially if you have your patient with you - my opinion streaming live directly into the analysis software is better. Unfortunately with the rise of YouTube etc, demand for smaller pocket size camcorders and SD formats, the far superior quality of the cheaper Mini DV Cassette has been sent to the waste bin. That said I still recommend people to fine a second hand mini DV camcorder on Ebay so they can streamline
    4) Cannon HV 40 is the only new camera out there with Firewire and are £800-900.
    5) Better than both is the HDMI interface and stream HD images at 30/60 fps. But until laptops provide 'HDMI in' it is only for Desktop computing.
    6) There are plenty of manufacturers producing 100fps (full res) industrial firewire cameras cheaper than the mentioned Canon as well as 200 - 400 fps GigE cameras, but you need to ask your software supplier whether it supports these .
  17. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Yes; presenting in the footwear biomech session on the Tues.

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