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Change of course name at Michener

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Cameron, May 5, 2009.

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  1. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

  2. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Re: Change of name in Toronto

    Here is the full Press Release:
    Canadian Federation of Podiatric Medicine supports name change of diploma at the Michener Institute to include Podiatric Medicine
     
  3. ONTARIODPM

    ONTARIODPM Member

    The Michener Institute Chiropody program's name has been changed back to Chiropody from "Podiatric Medicine" and accordingly the academic diploma title has reverted back to its most recent title, "Advanced Graduate Diploma of Health Sciences (Chiropody)" as of June 2010.

    "Podiatric", a derivative of the word "Podiatrist", and "Medicine" are protected titles in Ontario.

    See: www.michener.ca
     
  4. Graham

    Graham RIP

    The "chiropody" program in Ontario has developed in relative isolation from the rest of the world. This program currently receives no specific academic accreditation within Canada, and until it can demonstrate equivalency to "Podiatry" programs in the UK, Australia and the US, should not be considered a "Podiatry" program. Perhaps?!
     
  5. Ai_Luong

    Ai_Luong Member

    .

    Yes, they are. But DPodM/D.Ch is an academic title which is different from the professional title (protected).

    I agree that the Michener chiropody program was developed in relative isolation from the rest of the world. But I also think that the program has changed considerably since it was first created. It's a post-grad program with 3 DPMs on staff.
    I dont know what standard you use to assume that Michener chiropody program is not equivalent to podiatry programs in UK and Australia. (I'll get back to the US). Mind you I wish there was a university based podiatry program in Canada with research facility and opportunity for continue education. But I dont think there's a big difference between a Michener chiropodist and UK/Australian 3-4 year B.Sc Pod. Saskatchewan (and some other provinces) accepts UK, Austrlian, Michener graduates. Temple used to take Michener graduates with advanced standing.
    Now should Michener demonstrate equivalency with the UK and Australian programs or should it be eqivalency with the US podiatry program to be considered as "appropriate podiatry"? Because the last time I read on podiatry arena, UK/Australian pods are not recognized in the states.
    My point is that although there's different in levels of training, we are all treating feet. And the profession that treats feet is "podiatry" !
    We should put a side the "us" vs "them" attitude. If you are better trained, that's great becasue you can provide more services for your patients. Look at dentistry, not every dentist is trained as a dental surgeon, yet they are all dentists to the public eyes.
     
  6. Graham

    Graham RIP

    You make some very good points here! when I was chair of the academic guidleines committee of the College in the Mid 90s we did have agreement from the OSC and OPMA, along with the guidelines from the Ministry of Health, for a change of name and accreditation from CPSM. Unfortunatel this process was quashed by the then President of the College, David Shaw DPM. The OSC and OPMA failed to take this process on outside the College and we remain at a Status Quo.

    It still remains that the Michener Chiropody Program receives no accreditation even within Canada. This needs to be addressed.
     
  7. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Sorry! I meant accreditation from CPME!
     
  8. Ai_Luong

    Ai_Luong Member

    You're right. But is there an organization in Canada that gives accreditation to podiatry school? To be accredited by CPME the podiatry school must grand their graduates with a doctorate degree.
    I guess we'll have to see what the outcome of the podiatry/chiropody model review in 2014 is.
     
  9. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Status quo until then I guess? 10 years if you're lucky for legislative change. Hmm!?
     
  10. Ai_Luong

    Ai_Luong Member

    yeah I guess so. But in the meantime, it would be nice if chiropodists can operate the x rays machine. The current regulation allows chiropodist to own and operate an x rays machine provided that one graduates from a 4 years chiropody/podiatry school.
    Even though it's a post-grad, Michener chiropody program is still a three year program. It would be nice if a UK/Australia podiatry school has a bridging program possibly distance education for Ontario chiropodists. What do you think about the bridging program? How long did it take for you to "upgrade" to the Honour degree?
     
  11. Graham

    Graham RIP

    The post grad Honors program we ran in Ottawa was a two year program. If I recall this included 6, week long instructional sessions, where the course leader and tutor attended from the UK. In between the sessions we had various assignments to complete including a final year project and thesis.
     
  12. ONTARIODPM

    ONTARIODPM Member

    I think this is an exciting and very optimistic time for chiropody and podiatry in Ontario. The College of Chiropodists of Ontario has defined a direction for the future of delivery of footcare in this province, endorsed by the Ontario Society of Chiropodists (OSC) and the Ontario Podiatric Medical Association (OPMA), that it believes to be in the best interests of the public of Ontario. For those who are unaware, the legislation defining the scope of practice and authorized acts for Podiatry (practised by DPMs licensed in Ontario before 1993) in this province falls woefully behind what is permitted by podiatrists in other Canadian jurisdictions - namely Alberta and B.C. . Do the citizens of Ontario not also deserve the benefit of this wide range of treatment modalities and services (medical, surgical, you name it) available from foot specialists commensurate with the best that is available to citizens within other Canadian jurisdictions? Of course they do. Why should the citizens of Ontario have anything less? It would be irresponsible of a College to strive for anything less. Accordingly the College has made the right call on this.
    If enacted, what implications does this have for the average podiatrist or chiropodist currently practising in Ontario? If I understand correctly - none, if that is what you want from this new direction. You would be allowed to continue your practice at your present level as you choose unimpeded. However, the opportunity for advancement to be able to practice to the new expanded scope to be better able to manage our wound care patients, hospital admit our patients, foot and ankle surgically manage our patients, etc., etc., through academic and clinical "bridging"programs will and must be established. I wish to strongly echo the sentiment of Graham from Ottawa - this didactic and clinical training must come from "accredited" academic programs and institutions. I may be wrong, but that translates to me to mean a Podiatry program within a university in Ontario that has an existing medical school. Would the government of Ontario (the ultimate overseer of the public well being), medicine, pharmacy, nursing or any of the other health care stakeholders in Ontario accept anything less? I strongly suspect not. It is pie in the sky to think otherwise. To put it into practical terms, I highly doubt that there will likely be any acceptable "on-line" or "a couple of weekends" bridging programs that will allow me to one day go from not having performed any ankle surgery for years (because of the restrictions here presently for DPMs in Ontario) to the day following such a quicky bridging program starting to schedule them in. It would be entirely irresponsible and a display of the summit of ignorance to the above mentioned overseers to think this possible. This fact and reality is as true and applies equally to those presently registered in Ontario as podiatrists as it is for those presently registered in Ontario as chiropodists that wish to upgrade their competencies. The public best interest demands this.
     
  13. Graham

    Graham RIP

    If they have they have not shared this with their membership!


    This I agree with. Is this actually happening or something being worked on by the OPMA/OSC/College?

    Regards,
     
  14. ONTARIODPM

    ONTARIODPM Member

    Re: The New Footcare Model for Ontario

    The Council of the College of Chiropodists of Ontario announced and unanimously approved their vision for the future of footcare delivery for Ontario at the September 26, 2008 Council Meeting under Agenda Item 4.3 - "HPRAC Referral". As you are aware, these meetings are open to the public.

    I was informed of the recent endorsement by both the Ontario Podiatric Medical Association (OPMA) and by the Ontario Society of Chiropodists (OSC) for this initiative of the College at the OPMA's Annual General Meeting in October (2010).

    I applaud this very positive step by both professional associations to put aside their self serving differences from the past including their respective petty, biased, patchwork remedies for the failings of footcare delivery in Ontario (again, sorrowly behind that available elsewhere in Canada) to now see the bigger picture and more importantly to join in with the College toward this sound, comprehensive remedy for footcare delivery for Ontario in the best interest of the public. I hope that you too, Graham, will support this effort.
     
  15. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Of course I will. After all. I, along with Shel Freelan, initiated the same process back in 1995! To no avail then! My concern is little is actually getting done. HPRAC has been put back again!

    There is nothing more I would like to see than a University based "Podiatry" program for Ontario, In Ontario. One that would be accepted across the country. I wish the College, OSC & OPMA all the best in this effort.
     
  16. bpod

    bpod Active Member

    As a Michener grad and a university graduate as well, I take pride in the education I received at the Michener. Having gone to many conventions and conferences, I believe the grounding of my podiatry education was fantastic through the Michener, and would place it well above a basic 3 year UK degree.
    Having said that, I agree that the program has to be accredited and should be university based through a medical school.
    The arguments back and forth, some of the unprofessionalism between podiatrists and chiropodists that has been displayed, I would question whether Ontario should be the place to have this type of program....maybe a change of pace and place would get a new program off to a better start?? Would be nice to see us all put it behind us and move on. It is not good for either the podiatrists nor the chiropodists.
    Move on!

    Sue Davidge
    B.Sc., D.Ch., CDE
     
  17. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Here is the issue. There is currently no way to compare the Michener program to the UK or any other program. Having been an instructor with the Ontario Chiropody Program, and been exposed to graduates through the years, and having qualified from the UK three year diploma program, and taken the BSc(hons) Podiatric Medicine, post graduate program, through Brighton University, I can assure you that the current Ontario Program, while close, does not meet the academic standards of the UK, Australia or the US.

    However! Should this prove to be an equivalent program through acreditation, or through the development of a DPM academic program in Ontario, which I hope it will, I would certainly be an advocate for such a program.

    My concern is that while the College, OSC & OPMA may have given approaval to the idea, when is this likely to actually happen?

    Regards,
     
  18. bpod

    bpod Active Member

    Absolutely agree that the course needs to be accredited. No 2 ways about it.
    I would also put out there, that like any program, you get out what you put in. Accreditation should ensure a better bottom line.
    However, if you finished your affiliation with the program in 1995, that was 15 years ago....the course has changed, the profs have changed, hard to compare. And yes, that is part of the problem with not being accredited, to what standard are these people graduating with. I am just sick and tired of people dumping on the Mich course. It has problems, yes. Lets improve it, and stop denegrating those of us who graduated from there.
    Sue Davidge
     
  19. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Apologies, I meant not to discredit the students. I know many who have gone on to post graduate studies and are leaders in our profession in Ontario. I do, however, feel that there needs to be vocal and public/professional pressure on the Michener, College, OSC and OPMA to resolve the issues discussed. When I started with the program I wrote a letter of rebuttal to the UK, Society of Chiropodists, mag, against a prominent DPM in Ontario, saying just that. Don't put it down if you are not willing to help make it better.

    For over 10 years both within the school and as a member of the College, specifically Chair of the Academic Guidelines Committee, along with Shel Freelan DPM, we worked to achieve this. However, there was a lack of desire within the Michener and the College to improve and gain accreditation for the "actual" program. So yes, it was 17 years ago! And I'm afraid, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, nothing has changed.

    With Respect,
     
  20. bpod

    bpod Active Member

    Cheers.
    I couldn't agree more with you. It is very frustrating! This problem is across the board in Canada, as far as I can see. We need one cohesive voice with a strong projection for what we envsion podiatry to be in the future. Forget whether you are cdn trained, us trained, or Uk....what do we need and want for podiatry, what will work the best in the medical system here in Canada?????
    It appears on the outside that there is so much animosity between the DPMs and the DPodM and DCh in Onatrio that it is great to hear from others that some people havent given up and are still trying to sort the mess out!!
    So thankyou Graham for being a voice of reason as well as OnatrioDPM and Ai Luong!
    Sue Davidge
     
  21. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Sue,

    I hope so much that our profession can advance and provide a recognized Podiatry qualification that is acceptable across Canada. Currently, this can only be achieved by creating a DPM program, as BC and Alberta require the DPM designation, and I doubt they will change. However, this is not impossible. Quebec now has a DPM program through Trois Riverre and the New York School of Podiatry.

    While it would nice to think we can develop a program "specific" to Canada. The reality is that for portability, both in Canada and the US, the DPM program will be required.

    Regards.
     
  22. ONTARIODPM

    ONTARIODPM Member

    I have come to the same conclusion Graham. Without passing judgement or comment on the education attained anywhere else in the world, like it or not, in Canada the DPM is the only accepted academic standard, outside of the MD, that avails to said foot specialist the broadest scope and range of medical, surgical and diagnostic interventions in the treatment of disorders of the foot and ankle. Period. That fact is irrefutable and it has long existed in Alberta and B.C. . I believe it would be a monumental waste of time and resources to try and convince the decision makers in Ontario to consider any academic standard other than the DPM to bring Ontario up to that highest level of footcare delivery. No need to re-invent the wheel.
    So enough talk of the esoteric. Let's talk nuts and bolts. What is the remedy you ask? Here it is. An Ontario based Podiatry program within a university that has a Medical school. Furthermore, this Ontario Podiatry program must affiliate with a U.S. Podiatry school and it must attain CPME accreditation. As you said yourself, this type of an affiliation has happened already in Canada - no need to reinvent the wheel - we will just do it better because we will have better legislation in place in Ontario to welcome such an expanded podiatry profession. I think this has the potential to create a Podiatry program on par if not better than anywhere else in the world (that is the Canadian in me coming out).
    Do I think this is possible? You bet I do. More so now than ever before. The key to this happening is to create a momentum of enthusiasm and support for this College effort. The endorsement by the professions for the College proposal should not simply be the respective association President's signature on a document. You now know more about what the College and the associations' are working toward - what will you do with that knowledge? Share it and seek support for it. Shout down the naysayers and do not let those who prefer to dwell in the bitterness of the past subvert this effort.
    When will all this change happen? It has already begun. Even the longest journey begins with the first step.

    (No flogging dead mules here Graham).
     
  23. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Agreed! There was a process that the Ontario Government required for a profession and it's College to follow in order to change the educational requirements of that Regulated Health Profession. This is the process we had started back in 1995. I'll see if I can track down the info. If not I'm sure the College has it filed under the records of the now defuncked Academic Guidelines Committee.

    regards.
     
  24. bpod

    bpod Active Member

    I agree. My previous comments about the need for the new program to be specific to Canada, only meant that we should not blindly adopt a us based program in its entirety without adding some more specific Canadian content. Our health services are not what those are in the US, so I am sure the students would benefit from a different tack when it comes to those issues.
    Also, to get both sides of the Ontario issues....can it be done so that Mich grads with a science degree and an advanced diploma be given credits, and be able to apply to do a 2-3 year full time add on to attain the DPM degree???? That should bring everyone into the fold.
    Just a few thoughs from my perspective.

    Sue Davidge
     
  25. Graham

    Graham RIP

    It would not be unreasonable to request that Chiropodists in Ontario, or elsewhere, who hold a Science degree also, be given some credit towards a DPM program in Ontario. However, we first need the program! And I do not know how far along this discussion has gone within the OSC,OPMA and College, if it has gone on at all!

    I wonder if representatives from theses bodies could give us an update from their perspectives on this issue?

    Thanks,
     
  26. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Also! I doubt the Michener would be very happy divesting this program from it's sales perspective!
     
  27. bpod

    bpod Active Member

    You may be right there Graham....but they dropped the ball....didnt they?!
     
  28. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Yes they did! :bang:
     
  29. SarahR

    SarahR Active Member

    There will never be an externally accredited DPM granting institution in Canada, as the process for accrediting excludes all schools that are not in the USA. The Trois Riviere program is not accredited, and cannot grant DPMs. Most DPM schools were private to start, hence their ability to move beyond. Both Ontario and UK schools face pressure to design curicula based on costs of delivery and government funding/allowed tuition fees available. If I win the lotto, I'll fund a private school development. However I'd rather if we cut costs by amalgamating common courses for all health care providers, taking A&P, patho etc along side the doctors, dentists, optometrist, physio etc etc etc.

    There is no way to accredit the Michener in comparison to other programs, as this process is an internal (within a country) process that compares curriculum across multiple schools and also compares them with scope of practice and competency profile. Other countries accrediting bodies are not able to do this for us. We need to agree on a national competency profile, then maybe we can get somewhere with accrditation based on this comparison.
    That said, the program has been said to have been audited by external reviewers and the previous program (prior to relaunch in 2006) and was considered equivalent to UK and Australian BSc podiatry degrees. We are on the list of approved schools for the Australasian podiatry council, and many of our graduates have worked there with no need to "upgrade" (a term I find offensive). The evidence of this process stands, unfortunately I haven't gotten my hands on any documents that arose as a result of this comparison of programs. If anyone has such a thing, send it on over to me.

    The Michener was investigating accreditation options when I worked there last year.

    When, oh when, will I finally no longer be discriminated against or publically denigrated for simply accessing the only Podiatric education available to me in my own county?

    I shall ask for a formal reply to post here on behalf of the OSC at the next board meeting.
    Sarah
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2010
  30. SarahR

    SarahR Active Member

    A DPM degree is only 4 years long. This only gives us one or two years of advanced standing. I can get more than 2 years advanced standing at Temple already, and most DPM schools will give one year advanced standing to any international graduate. You apply and are evaluated on an individual basis.

    How many clinicians will be able to quit their practices and take 2-3 years of full time unpaid school/work as intern, plus tacking on a mandatory residency? Not many I know. There is a reason I didn't to to Temple, more time paying tuition and not being gainfully employed (lost income). And not much increase in income potential at the end (especially with the cap for how many more years). It adds up quickly.

    I believe part time bridging classes and part time fellowships are a fair and reasonable way to allow us to progress to a sugical scope. I'd go nuts if I had to be back in a teaching clinic for 4th year internships with some instructor trying to "teach" me basic and palliative Podiatric care after years of practicing independently, dictating treatments and "checking up" on my work, getting impatient and grabbing the syringe out of my hand to demo an injection I've done a thousand times. Come on. We need to be reasonable.

    **This is my opinion and in no way reflects the opinion of any organization I might be affiliated with. Let's use common sense and make advancement actually be accessible to all who wish to pursue it.

    S
     
  31. bpod

    bpod Active Member

    Nice to hear from another Mich grad who is proud to stand up and be heard! Thank you!!
    You`ve got some great information...I would love to see the comparison studies of our program vs. UK and Australia programs. Would be interesting!!

    Sue Davidge
     
  32. Mart

    Mart Well-Known Member

    There is a fairly newly established way to get the kind of bridging education you seem to seek already operating in the UK and which I suspect Mitchener grads with existing BSc would be eligible.

    It is geared up for working podiatrists wishing to upgrade their clinical and research knowledge to level now required in UK for surgical residency opportunities. It is likely to be recognised here as one of prerequisites for eligibility for surgical privileges within the Podiatry act of Manitoba.

    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]www.winnipegfootclinic.com<o:p></o:p>
     
  33. SarahR

    SarahR Active Member

    I have advocated for this type of model of education and will continue to do so as I believe it is in the best interest of chiropodists and the public. However I wish to see one domestically in the long term, as international tuition rates are very high. The international travel requirements are also expensive.
    Sarah
     
  34. Mart

    Mart Well-Known Member

    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I have worked in Manitoba for 23 years and have been involved somewhat in Canadian podiatric politics throughout that time. I see no evidence of serious adoption to provide this model in Canada and am not holding my breath given the history of lack of nationally agreed upon educational framework. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    As a generalisation what I see as a problem in Canada are polemicists framing arguments around two extremes <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    1 Firstly an unreasonable of defence of limited education from Mitchener Grads and UK trained Baccalauriates.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    And<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    2 Secondly protectionists masquerading with superior educational standards from DPMs.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    I think we all fall between these extremes in varying degrees (no pun intended). <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    I think that most of us have an idea about what we want the public to expect when they see a podiatrist. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    What I hear mostly from my peers boils down to “what I can offer them”. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    That is problematic because it represents a large range. It is also influenced by issues such as status and how seriously we are taken by other health professionals particularly physicians and orthopaedic surgeons.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    I believe that;<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    We need to bring the Canadian podiatric educational level to a point where podiatrists are capable of identifying and managing any problem presenting to them. This would involve using all usefully available diagnostic investigations and short term drug interventions. That is currently not the case but is theoretically attainable by everyone who is currently licensed. Those who cannot should quit whining and get learning.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    There should be a subgroup with surgical training beyond simple office procedures that are regulated within that specialist category. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    That the DPM protectionists need to take a serious look at what is going on outside of US. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Perhaps then we can make some meaningful progress nationally. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Did you see the recent byelaws proposed for the BC podiatry act? There’s a good example of 2 above.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    I think I have probably alienated enough for one message.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Cheers<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Martin<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    The St. James Foot Clinic <o:p></o:p>
    1749 Portage Ave.<o:p></o:p>
    Winnipeg<o:p></o:p>
    Manitoba <o:p></o:p>
    R3J 0E6<o:p></o:p>
    phone [204] 837 FOOT (3668)<o:p></o:p>
    fax [204] 774 9918<o:p></o:p>
    www.winnipegfootclinic.com<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
     
  35. bpod

    bpod Active Member

    Well said sir:drinks
     
  36. Ai_Luong

    Ai_Luong Member

    Well said. While there are disagreements on which "model" to follow we all tend to agree that there's a need for podiatric education reform (or con ed).

    I invite everyone to take a look at this article written by chiropractors

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2538524/

    We have a different health care system therefore we don't need to copy the exact DPM model like in the state. Let put a side the feasibility for a moment (Ministry of health funds Michener, our model is heavily influenced by the ministry of health etc..) Since Michener already requires a bachelor degree for their 3 years D.Ch program, we should be thinking about a 4 years doctorate degree program. And residency should be optional. Not everyone wants to be a surgeon but the option is there, just like in dentistry. With an extra year, graduates of this program can work in any province in Canada (of course with residency where needed).

    There we go. That's my perfect model of care. Everyone gets a doctor tittle with advance training opportunity, and every presenting podiatric problem will get treated by the foot specialist.
     
  37. Mart

    Mart Well-Known Member

    I agree that not every podiatrist needs to “be a surgeon” and as you know that is not the case in the US where there are insufficient places for everyone who wants to take a surgical residency.
    However the educational pre-requisites for those wishing to be considered for surgical residency are relevant to those who do not pursue this route. I believe that to be effective as a podiatrist this should be basic level. I see significant deficit in Baccalaureate training at least in the UK which is my background. I feel that based on my own training and many conversations with recent BSc grads who I study with on current MSc programs. Also I feel it important to take note of current trend in physiotherapy and occupational therapy in Canada that is rapidly moving away from Baccalaureate level to MSc as basic clinical prerequisite.
    I would be interested for an educators view about the idea of compressing a current three years BSc program into one year and spending two years further with MSc level syllabus. Candidates for this might be expected to graduate with a pre-med science degree and MCAT, which is normal entry requirement for MDs in Canada. I think this would be ideal. It would make more sense for this as basis for Canadian podiatry educational model than simply a rehashing of the Michener program.
    I believe this would rationally overcome legitimate concerns from US centric provinces about non DPM level of training and eventually bring about a standard where, nationally, other medical disciplines might have some confidence about what the term podiatrist might amount to.
    Unless there is sufficient will within the educational and political decision making circles this will not likely happen and I am not privy to what that might amount to. However at individual level, where we do have control, the option to upgrade our capacity already exists. That is where, in the short term, I feel inclined to stand on my soap box and pontificate somewhat. The cost and commitment do this should not be an impediment given lack of viable alternative, unless of course we simply want to carry on as we are for the foreseeable future.
    Time to climb off the box; I feel some incipient and creeping self righteousness.
    Cheers


    Martin
    <o:p>


    The St. James Foot Clinic
    1749 Portage Ave.
    Winnipeg
    Manitoba
    R3J 0E6
     
  38. ONTARIODPM

    ONTARIODPM Member


    The Chiropractic article you cite above is an excellent read which analyzes very nicely why it is that Podiatry has garnered a signficant measure of respect within the greater U.S. healthcare community and the public at large as evidenced by a long list of significant achievements including, but not limited to, being defined by the Federal government (legislators, armed services), hospitals and insurance agencies as "Physicians" along with the MDs and Dentists; Podiatrists holding key positions as part of the Medical Staff of hospitals and hospital boards. The article is very insightful and illustrates several key points i believe to be very pertinent to the discussion here.

    Two of the five key points that the author's of the article attribute this success to have to do with - you guessed it - EDUCATION. Specifically, it references the concerted decision by the profession to move to an education model provided within recognized and accredited universities. (At the time of the writing of this article, this was true for five of the eight but I believe that it is now true for six of the nine U.S. podiatry schools). More relevantly, the podiatry schools affiliated themselves with universities that had pre-exisiting medical schools. The standard for admissions were rigidly defined to mirror that of allopathic physicians; namely, a science baccalaureate degree pre-requisite in conjunction with a satisfactory score on the Medical College Aptitude Test (MCAT). There was a purposeful determination by the profession that it would be beneficial to offer the podiatry didactic (and some clinical) education via a post-graduate vehicle as part of an education stream provided through these academic institutions alongside the training of allopathic physicians. Does this not justify that at the end of the education stream one could rightly be called "Doctor"?

    The second component of the podiatry profession's concerted education initiative had to do with providing post graduate clinical training consistent with and commensurate with what is done for medical physicians and yes, even dental physicians [Doctors of Medical Dentistry (D.M.D.) is the degree from the U.S.A.]. I am not speaking to consistent with what is required of medical physicians that want to specialize in surgery, for example, but consistent with what is required post graduation for medical doctors that simply want to be family physicians/G.P.s . Yes. They require post graduate "internships"/residencies "just to" eventually by able to take a strep throat swab, listen to your lungs, etc. in their own office setting. Similarly, even general practice dentists (I am not referring to dental specialists ie. endodontists or periodontists) in the USA are required to take post graduate internship/residency training just to be able to drill and fill in their own private practice.] Podiatry in the USA quite rightly determined that if they wanted to be considered "physicians of the foot" they had to undergo the same rigors of didactic and clinical training as their counterparts. There is no acceptable short cut.

    So, what is the lesson to us residing here in Canada from this article? First and foremost, the U.S. educational system that produced DPMs that practice now and have for many years in certain provinces of Canada (namely Alberta and BC) has functioned very nicely to allow those practitioners to integrate seamlessly and to practice very capably within the Canadian health care system. Secondly, those same US trained DPMs do so with the most extensive scope of practice available to foot specialists anywhere in Canada. I can only presume that the experience is no different for U.S. trained medical doctors and dentists that choose to come to (or more often, like the DPMs, return to) Canada to practice. So the argument that since we here in Canada have a different style of healthcare system than the U.S.' therefore a "U.S. style" of podiatry education won't work here - doesn't hold water. Given the reality of the status of things here in Canada is it not really just biase and politics that fuels this point of view? I doubt the same views are harboured within medicine or dentistry in parallel comparisons and I would expect that those arguments put forward by anyone within those professions would be quickly dismissed as indefensible.

    As I have suggested in several posts in this thread already - within North America there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Require the exact same minimum educational prerequisites (science baccalaureate + MCAT) for entry into the Canadian podiatry school. Ensure that the graduates matriculate with having achieved at least the same didactic and clinical competencies as the U.S. DPM. Ensure that post graduate training is provided so as to ensure that the clinical and surgical competencies are achieved and can be demonstrated as having been achieved. Plug all of the above into a Canadian university affiliated with a medical school and hospital system and we have just modelled a "Canadian style" podiatry education which I trust would be transportable within Canada, the USA and most likely the world. I would just prefer if it could cease to be that within certain jurisdictions of Canada one is regarded as being heretical or somehow "anti-chiropody" to give proper credit, acknowledgement or even a tip of the hat to what the DPM education has done for the podiatry profession within the USA - and yes, within Canada too.
     
  39. Ai_Luong

    Ai_Luong Member

    Rest in peace Graham. I am sure that your "visioned podiatry model" in Ontario will come true one day.
     
  40. bpod

    bpod Active Member

    Lets call a spade a spade. Until DPM provinces accept on some level cdn trained chiropodists, Australian, Uk etc podiatrists, and we get some cohesive idea of what foot care is in canada, there is no point revamping the training. What are we training them for? to work only in Alberta or BC where DPMs have the privileges that allows them to use their skills? The real problem is we (chiropodists and podiatrists) need to put the ego aside get on the same page and move forward, until we can do that....there seems little point. Some provinces have no podiatry/chiropody act, others have one, but are very limited in what they can do, etc. We need to be on the same page to get things moving here. Enough already. Podiatrists and chiropodists have undermined themselves by being so devisive.
     
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