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Morality:God Given or Human Invention?

Discussion in 'Break Room' started by David Smith, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. Graham

    Graham RIP

    Dr. Robert Buchman: Can We Be Good Without God?

    Makes an interesting read
  2. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    Hi Derek

    I take it this contempt (meaning to regard something as inferior, vile and worthless) you feel is for religion and not God, since for you, he does not exist.

    Does the taking up of some faith indicate a certain lack of intelligence. Intelligence is one thing but the wise are those who do have faith in God.

    Regards and Cheers Dave
  3. It appears things are about to get personal around here.

    I´m out.

    Dave its been intersting I hope you enjoy your journey , I´m planning on enjoying mine where ever it take me.
  4. Graham

    Graham RIP

    No! I am an A-Theist and I have faith in Human Kind and the general principles of being "good" to yourself and to others.

    It is a wise man who believes in what he will and doesn't give a hoot what someone else believes in as long as they treat each other in a manner they would like to be treated.
  5. It always will get personal any time religion or politics is being discussed. I imagine this thread has about a week before it will explode.....:eek:
  6. I hope not. I have the greatest respect for Dave and Robert and their views, even though I may disagree with them. I hope others on whatever side of any debate take the same view. Let's keep the personal diatribes to the MASS discussion on Podiatry Today! ;)
  7. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    Respect and regards Dave
  8. David, you have no idea of my faith or belief system, so step down from your soap-box and stop with the holier than thou approach. So you believe you've seen God and he had a chat with you. Good for you. Like the others, I'm out.
  9. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    I am really enjoying this thread guys and it does not distress me one bit to be questioned or refuted about my faith. All the time you ask questions or even throw insults, which no one has of course, the end result is that your attention is toward God. It gives you a chance to make a choice and I'll bet that someone here, who is atheist now, will be back in one year or less saying oh yes Dave and Robert were right. It will be Simon!:eek:

    Mark I haven't forgotten you I'll get back to your reply later, I've been kept pretty busy by you all today. I haven't got half the work done I should have, but for me, this is important stuff.

    Off to teach a 'Y' course now to new or nearly new or thinking about it Christians, your questioning gives me great practice in building suitable and scripture based responses to difficult enquiries and doubt.

    all the best Dave
  10. David,
    1. You assume I am an atheist.
    2. You are wrong.

    Enough said.
  11. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    That about sums it up for me

    Nope as I said your choice its just not for me ( I don't force my opinions on anyone)

    That my friend is where you cross the line and why everyone here is bailing out,

    NEVER assume that because you have a belief, those that do not share your views are in some way inferior or less wise than you :mad:

    Tell me oh wise one, a war that has happened in history to the present time that has not had religion involved as the causative factor or as part of it ???

    Total hippocracy Loving , kind ,etc etc etc?? yeah Righto:rolleyes:

    Look at the misery and suffering an pain they cause. or perhaps you are so blind you cannot see ?

    Yep that wonderful all loving god to which you happy clap too, that's the one !!

    Not one of he /she ( god) supporters can ever give me an answer to that ( or many other questions) on those lines as you cant either :rolleyes:

    It's not a good subject to get me started on Dave so I want to bow out like the rest( my question was to Rob originally) coz this is going nowhere as I'm not going to change my views and I'm sure at the moment yours either and as Kevin said

    and I don't want that to happen especially with you.:drinks

    Lets leave it now and as Graham said

    My feelings exactly;)

  12. Sorry, I should have said 24 hours....it's like a ticking time bomb!!:eek::eek:
  13. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Kevin

    Why put a time limit on it ?? if its gonna happen it will happen .

    I don't want that ,so I like you are bailing out if I'm allowed.

    I just feel it's a great shame that the Arena is being used for religious argument.

    We had this several years ago with another member who I believe went onto an ecclesiastical site to carry on his public beliefs ??

    There are more specific web forums available I believe ??

    It should be taken there IMHO.
  14. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Cool - just like a religious version of Dragons Den.

    Apologies to anyone outside the UK who may not get this reference (and further apologies for my horrendously rushed photoshop attempt)
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  15. J.R. Dobbs

    J.R. Dobbs Active Member

    You are all wrong. Read the scriptures of the Church of the Sub-genius and you will then see the light-switch.
  16. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Nice to see you have time to scan individual web sites ( especially those with a copyright on them :rolleyes: )

    I think the dragons tell people to sod off not the other way round ??

    FYI , I consider Dave a respected friend and perhaps I was foolish to reply to Rob's comment and get involved.

    I do not want to lose Dave as a friend BUT I will never concede to oppressive comment on my beliefs so that is why I want out ,and if this carries on we all know where it will finish.

    Please let it go
  17. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Sorry Del - just trying to lighten the mood - picture removed.
  18. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Thank you my friend ;)

    Much appreciated, I just don't want to fall out with Smiffy and that will happen if this carries on coz you know I cant leave it alone if challenged :eek:
    Thanks again mate
  19. Griff

    Griff Moderator

  20. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Si & Ian

    And the others tubes :D

    Seems I'm not alone in my views

    Good job we don't all think the same innit ?

    Be a boring old world if we did

    Be Lucky
  21. OK, I lied one more, this is the only link I could find to channel 4's excellent comedy series: absolutely! and specifically series 2 episode 2, if you are unfamiliar with this fantastic show- watch the lot. But here in this episode the first sketch (sit through the advert!) is Calum Gilhooley showing you how to deal with religious salesmen.
  22. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Calum Gilhooley - what a guy!

  23. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    A bottle of Scotch and 20 Benson and Hedges


    PS - When I have a bit more time, I will give you a proper reply. I like the topic
  24. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    Simon, robin, Del, Kevin, Mark and all

    I was a little trepidacious about opening this thread this morning as it had just started to go a little pear shaped. It is not my intention to annoy or offend anyone but that can be a consequence.

    My intention is not to say I am Holier than thou and stand above anyone wagging a finger. No, on the contrary, my God shows that one sin is the same as a thousand, one type of sin is as bad as any other type of sin in the terms that it makes one unholy i.e. it is an absolute, you are unholy and broken or you are Holy and whole. Since no human is free of sin then none can be more Holy than anyone else even though they might purport to be or make others feel that way they are not and I am definentely not.

    I tell people the story ( a real fact as far as I'm concerned) so that they might have a choice to listen and act on it, but it is their choice, I do not condemn those who do not make a choice for God now, one day they might. (I like the Absolutely Sketch BTW)

    Real faith, like Holiness is absolute, I can't be a little bit faithful. My faith is not an opinion that can be attenuated and modified to fit in with what is popular at present. I can't be open to another faith or lifestyle option because it appears to be a much fairer or more rational way of interacting with others in society. To do that would deny that God is always right, which implies that something may be better than God. Faith requires me to be faithful:
    Encarta defines faith as

    Conscientious, Consistent, Unwavering, Not adulterous, True.

    An unfortunate acronym that some might be tempted to apply here:eek:

    When I say you believe in nothing and I believe in everything it is said in the context of the Christian faith and this is that there is only one God and He gives New Life through faith in Him, which is everything. To not believe in that one God means no new life, which is nothing. Solomon explains this very clearly and humorously.

    Wisdom in the terms of Christian faith literally means to accept and live by the word of God and so those who do not are, by definition, unwise. So the term wisdom is not some arbitrary judgement about the decisions people make in life per se.

    Did you know Jesus tells us many times not to judge other in terms of faith or some moral standard but only to look at how our own faith or moral standards stand up to our own conscience.

    So that thought takes me back to the original topic that I have drifted away from somewhat i.e. ‘Morals where did they originate’. So if there is anyone who’s not out or would like to come back in:

    I have put forward a theory of the origin and nature of morals, but to keep the discussion more secular, can anyone propose a theory of the origin and nature of morals in terms of evolution and the origin of species. Mark started to answer in post #24 but got sidetracked I thought. Rejecting my proposal because some supporters of it behave badly is not a valid argument. That is like saying the rules of football are wrong because some players fight, well yeah! that is why there are rules so you know what conduct is not permitted.

    Cheers and all the best (especially Del) Dave:drinks
  25. cornmerchant

    cornmerchant Well-Known Member


    I hope this thread has run its course, if for no other reason than it had no place on this forum.
    I did not get involved in the discussion-it is more fun to sit back and watch the games! I am not sure of your intention in posting originally, just to be contentius I fear, but anyway, as patronising and as condescending as you are , I am sure your intentions are sincere, they just dont do it for me.
    I live a happy life, I have what I consider good morals and ethical behaviour ,I do as I would be done by and guess what? not a whiff of God in sight.
    Each to their own . but please keep it to yourself- there is nothing worse than an ex smoker and a new christian!

    ps- this could be one of the very rare occasions I would agree with Del!
  26. J.R. Dobbs

    J.R. Dobbs Active Member

    Embrace the slack and you shall be received into the Church of the Sub-Genius.
  27. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member


    Why? because it offends you, 1) why should it? and 2) there is no right not to be offended although some seem to think there is or should be.

    Good for you!

    Just to keep it in the right place, you know, the break room, where any topic can be discussed that's not to do with podiatry. No need to be afraid though God still loves you.

    Isn't that a little patronizing and condescending?

    Well done!I'm just telling my view that doesn't automatically demand that you change yours. But you totally missed the point and so I guess you won't even get this point.

    4th stage syphillis and traumatic brain damage probably just nose ahead

    Hey! every cloud has a silver lining eh!

    Regards Dave
  28. Dave

    Whilst I don't mind debating the subject, I think this thread has ran its course. It is a podiatry forum after all - not a philosophy or theological discussion board and although we could have many hours of enjoyable debate, there is the very real danger, as others have pointed out, of it being derailed by personal abuse. Undermining or reinforcing belief systems can be rather traumatic for some. I made the point about belief dogma on the other thread to illustrate a point , not to undermine your belief - and I think the direction and nature of this thread has more than adequately proved my point. It's Just as unlikely that Kevin Kirby will ever endorse sole supports or Rothbart's insoles as it is that we will ever reach agreement on religion - so on that basis - although I'm sure you're having fun - mabe it's best to say we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

    All the best

  29. J.R. Dobbs

    J.R. Dobbs Active Member

    You are all too uptight to be slack. Relax and make the right choice. That choice is Sub-genius.
  30. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Steady !!! :D:D

    Thanks Dave , tip from an oldun .... Just enjoy being YOU!!!

    No need to pontificate your views , enjoy life , enjoy your friends and most of all be tolerant of the views of others.

    Accept them as a differing view but don't dismiss them as irrelevant !!

    You are on a roll with your new found faith :empathy:

    Enjoy the moment and believe we can all share and enjoy your moment.


    One day ,come back into the real world and accept that religion and religious morals are so closely linked to be inseparable .


    IMO totally hypocritical to offend many like me.

    No need to reply, just understand ;)

    Cheers mate
    Be lucky

  31. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    It's been fun reading kids...

    Now I'd better call Cruise and Travolta and get my wallet ready for some proper religion.

    Someone pass me that B grade sci-fi novel over there?

  32. Lab Guy

    Lab Guy Well-Known Member

    I agree with the others that have stated that religion is man made. The older I become the more distanced I become from religion.

    For me, if there is a God, A Divine Source, it is us, everyone of us. We embody the drops of water from the infinite ineffable waters of All.

    I have a firm belief in spirituality, which for me is a relationship with my Self. When I truly know my Self, I will remember who I really am.

    When we have a spiritual experience through our own religion, through relationships or by whatever means, we are connecting to the most important Source of all...ourselves, and when we do, we are inspired to do great things such as honoring and respecting the choices of others.

    For now, I just want to be enlightened in Biomechanics and Orthotics.


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