RCS wants to protect 'surgeon' title

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The BBC are reporting:
Surgeons 'seek to protect title'

Full story

 

The Sun have got in on it as well:
Bunglers cashing in on title ‘surgeon’

Full story

 

Podiatric surgeons in the UK might want to start thinking of a new name to call themselves.:butcher:

 

Headline news on BBC Radio and featuring on news 24. Spokesman from the Institute defending the podiatry position..... SCP AWOL? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18828208

 

Use of Title of Podiatric Surgeon

Dear All,

Just heard the 11 O Clock news on radio 2 and this topic has made it into the Public Domain.

Sadly the broadcaster is ignorant of her Latin and Greek origins of words. But that is a mistake most make as they go to the SHEMMIST and wear a Kemeeze.

The report was on the desire of the College of Surgeons to have the title of Surgeon protected by Law. Only those who do a MEDICAL DEGREE should be able to use the title of Surgeon.

Fat Chance as the world and his wife now use the Title Surgeon in many occupations. eg Tree Surgeon

Still it was reported that the SOCIETY OF SHURROPPODDISTS and PODEARTRISTS have supported the use of the title Podiatric Surgeon as those who are have attained the level of a Degree with The Surgical part being POST GRAD initially via America and today via Masters and PhD.

Still Dr's who do not have a PhD should be made to desist from using an honourary title for which they have not studied for and have not achieved.

I watched over my career of 25 years the introduction of Podiatric Surgeons into the NHS and its success on both the Surgical and financial outcomes for both the patient and taxpayer.

So obviously the College of Surgeons have now decided to deal with this irritation once and for all.

I support this as it will force the Medical Professions and Govt to decide what is what and by whom.

This could lead to complete closure of all health professions with the activity as well as title enshrined in law.

So if you are a Podiatrist with a PhD you are a Doctor of Podiatry.

If you are General Pratitioner with a B.Med and Post Grad in say Gynae but do not have a PhD then you cannot use the title of Doctor, but will use the title of General Practitioner.

This will be a mess and a financial disater for all parties. and I include the Tax paying Public and the Patients and the Medical Professions in this.

As an aside where will this leave all the unregulated pseudo health carers who are not HPC or other regulatory bodies controlled????

regards David:deadhorse:

 

Hi mark,

Did not hear that one.

But i did listen to the 11 oclock news on radio 2 this morning and the SCP have issued a statement. Sadly the BBC reporter has trouble with the pronounciation of words of Greek and Latin derivation.

I have posted my own thread on this news item.

This battle could have major implications for all HEATH and SOCIAL CARE PROVIDERS.

David:drinks

 

Nope fairly sure it was the Institute on Radio 2 - link above quotes

 

I went to the IOCP web site and saw that they represent Podiatric Surgeons.

I could find no reference to the training of either Podiatrists or Podaitric Surgeons.

I could however find reference to the training of foot health practitioners.

So i am a bit confused.

I also saw reference to the comments by the IOCP on the use of titles such as Podiatric Surgeon.

I then went onto the SOCAP site and there is no mention of the radio and news paper comments by the RCS regarding the Podiatric Surgeons.

Interesting times ahead

David:bash:

 

Simon,

Hows about

SURGICAL CHIROPODIST

or even

SURGICAL PODIATRICIAN

David

 

I suspect they''ll protect "surgeon" and it's derivatives. Be interesting to see how the dental surgeons holding a BDS respond.

 

Re: Use of Title of Podiatric Surgeon

Nope, you are a Doctor of Philosophy.

 

Dear Simon,

or even how the Chiropractors will fare as they all use the title Dr.

Certainly the 2 in my area use the title Dr.

regards David

 

Total wank-fest. You pays your money to the HPC to use a title - in our profession, regardless to whether you have trained to be such - so that they can watch over you (sort of) and take that 'privilege' away if you misbehave. Can't stop you practising though. And if your misbehaviour was bad enough, tough titty - on you go; just change your title. No ends to human creativity. Same with surgeon. Don't use the name boys; that's our privilege. We pays the money; it's our club. Doesn't mean a toss whether you're good enough or bad enough to warrant our concerns at what you do. Just don't use the name. Or else. When I think of podiatry uk plc right now I get a curious sense of what it must be like to be the girl in a menage a trois.

 

I missed this one from 2009 - still on the BBC website. Reassuring to note that the HPC are as helpful as ever to the general public regarding the podiatric profession.

 

Well said Mark !!!

Nick

 

There is much misunderstanding regarding the term 'surgeon' and some within the RCS delight in spreading misinformation, presumably to gain privilege and to gain a monopoly.

A previous attempt to claim sole use of the term resulted in a rebuke from the Privy Council:

From Privy Council to The Royal College of Surgeons of England 4th August 1993:


‘You refer to the College`s Royal Charter and to the responsibilities that you believe it to confer. The object specified in the Charter is in fact the promotion of the art of science of surgery and its study and practice. Whilst the supervision and maintenance of surgical practice are not of course inconsistent with this object, it is not immediately apparent that the Charter expressly charges the Royal College with these responsibilities’.
In legal terms this means that the Royal College can only be responsible for those who are its Members and Fellows.

They also said:
‘Under section 4 of the CPSM Act , the Board, the CPSM and the Privy Council have to be satisfied that a qualification will ensure that the holder has sufficient knowledge and skill to practice the profession in question’.
The only qualifications in Podiatric Surgery that met these criteria were Membership and Fellowship of the Podiatry Association.

Clearly the word surgeon is universal and provided its use is qualified eg. tree surgeon, podiatric surgeon, dental surgeon etc, its use cannot be prohibited unless used deliberately to mislead ie. a podiatric surgeon pretending to be a tree surgeon etc etc

 

An Interesting article to bolster the publics' confidence in the medical profession and its grasp of foot and ankle surgery.





Foot and ankle surgery—The Achilles heel of medical students and doctorsOriginal Research Article
The Foot Volume 21, Issue 3, Pages 109-113 (September 2011)
John C. Kelly, Patrick J. Groarke, Eoin Flanagan, James Walsh, Michael M. Stephens

 

I hope that the Society is getting its opinion poll up and running with at least 3000 participants.

The response to the RCS opinion poll demonstrates the importance of the question asked.

The following question might have produced a totally different response.

Would you prefer your foot surgeons training to be totally dedicated to the foot?

As I read it the RCS case is based on the fact that the public are being misled as they didn't realise that podiatric surgeons are not medically qualified.

That's easily solved. Each podiatric surgeon provides a description of his training and surgical experience to each potential patient on or preferably before the first appointment. This maximises patient choice and answers the RCS concern.

Podiatric surgery need to play to its strengths and I'm sure it will do.

Bill

 

Hi Bill

I understand that it is accepted practice for every podiatric surgeon (I'd stand corrected) to inform the patient in writing prior to surgery that they are not medical doctors. (I know that begs the question that most medically trained people are not doctors, but for the public it does make it clear). Believe me, if that was surmounted, the British Orthopaedic Foot Society would invent another issue.

All the best

Bill

 

Medicine wants total dominance in what it sees as its property and that includes surgery. What's best for the patient is always going to come a poor second to what's best for medicine.

I think there is still a strong political will to prevent medicine from strengthening its dominance and hopefully even to weaken its dominant position even further but it is never going to roll over and give in. By the nature of the game medicine will continue to seek opportunities to test the water and push for dictatorship.

The reward for the in group are so great that they are never going to voluntarily let any other group share it, define it, dictate it.

Of course they will invent another issue and while you are looking in that direction they will be laying mines elsewhere.

Watch your back.

Bill