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Lest we forget

Discussion in 'Australia' started by admin, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member


    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    They went with songs to the battle, they were young.
    Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.
    They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
    They fell with their faces to the foe.
    They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
    Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
    At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
    We will remember them.


    ANZAC Day

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  2. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Anzac spirit

    Simpson and his donkey statue by Peter Corlett outside the Australian War Memorial, Canberra.

    The Anzac spirit or Anzac legend is a concept which suggests that Australian and New Zealand soldiers possess shared characteristics, specifically the qualities those soldiers allegedly exemplified on the battlefields of World War I.[1][failed verification][2] These perceived qualities include endurance, courage, ingenuity, good humour, larrikinism, and mateship. According to this concept, the soldiers are perceived to have been innocent and fit, stoical and laconic, irreverent in the face of authority, naturally egalitarian and disdainful of British class differences.[3]

    The Anzac spirit also tends to capture the idea of an Australian and New Zealand "national character", with the Gallipoli Campaign sometimes described as the moment of birth of the nationhood both of Australia[3] and of New Zealand.[4][5][6] It was first expressed in the reporting of the landing at Anzac Cove by Ellis Ashmead-Bartlett; as well as later on and much more extensively by Charles Bean. It is regarded as an Australian legend, although its critics refer to it as the Anzac myth.[3][7][8][9][10]

    1. ^ "'ANZAC Day' in London; King, and General Birdwood at Services in Abbey," New York Times. 26 April 1916.
    2. ^ "The ANZAC Spirit". Returned and Services League of Australia Western Australian Branch. 2003. Archived from the original on 19 August 2006. Retrieved 2006-11-10.
    3. ^ a b c Robert Manne, The war myth that made us, The Age, 25 April 2007
    4. ^ Andrew Leach, The Myth of the Nation Archived 19 March 2012 at the Wayback Machine
    5. ^ Why is Anzac Day so special? NZ History On Line
    6. ^ "Baris Askin, The Troy Guide". Archived from the original on 30 March 2009. Retrieved 26 May 2010.
    7. ^ Tony Smith, Conscripting the Anzac myth to silence dissent, Australian Review of Public Affairs, 11 September 2006.
    8. ^ Ben Knight, Breaking through our Gallipoli 'myth', ABC news, 2 November 2008
    9. ^ Matt McDonald, 'Lest We Forget': Invoking the Anzac myth and the memory of sacrifice in Australian military intervention, Paper presented at the annual meeting of the International Studies Association's 50th Annual Convention "Exploring the Past, Anticipating the Future", New York Marriott Marquis, New York City, NY, USA, 15 February 2009.
    10. ^ Graham Seal, Inventing Anzac: The Digger and National Mythology, St Lucia: API Network and UQP, 2004.
     
  3. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

    Nice ode to fallen comrades. Nice
     
  4. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Agreed

    Politicians here seem able to forget a debt of blood. Some of us never will.

    Bill
     
  5. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    That ode is ANZAC day's equivalent of the 'Lords Prayer'. As a youngin in NZ I used to go to all the dawn services ("At the going down of the sun and in the morning, We will remember them"), but then the day become, just another 'day off work'. Of late its taken on more significance, especially this year. I recently worked on a military project and as part of that got to conduct focus groups with a lot of diggers who had seen action in Iraq and Afghanistan. I have not felt so strongly about having to do something today ... I have a much greater respect for those to have given so much. I was up early today to watch the dawn service on TV with the Arena'ettes (they wanted to watch the Wiggles); even though they are too young to understand, I will take them later this AM to a commeneration at a local war memorial.....they will not forget.

    BUT, then this afternoon .....bring it on - its Collingwood v Essendon in the ANZAC day clash! :boxing:
     
  6. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    netizens

    Footmen (foot soldiers) or infantry are soldiers who fight with small arms on the ground and are transported to the battlefield. The etymology of ‘infantry” is thought to derive from the same Latin root as 'infant', either via Italian, where it referred to young men who accompanied knights on foot, or via Spanish, where the infantes (royal princes but not heirs to the throne) commanded the footmen, hence known as infanteria. From antiquity armies have been built around a core of infantry and relied on their feet for operational movements (transportation behind the lines, especially in the pre-industrial era) and tactical movement (movement in battle). At first foot soldiers fought in loosely organized groups under the commanded of individuals within ear shot who would call out orders. The Greeks preferred heavily-armed formations of infantry which fought in rigid formation but by the time of the Romans, legions were lightly-armed and mobile, capable of relocating on the battlefield to exploit advantage. By the early Middle Ages, combat preference was given to knights (on horseback). Foot soldiers were armed with long spears to counter the long reach of lances used by the cavalry. About 1350 when personal armoury became too heavy to be practical ground fighting was reintroduced and the importance of the archer became apparent. Eventually the bow was replaced by the musketeer as guns became more accurate and require less skill to use. The introduction of the bayonet marked the beginning of modern infantry and as time progressed and communications and weaponry improved, infantry formations were trained to carry out pre-arranged tactical (silent) manoeuvres in the heat of battle. By the First World War I (1914-1918), it was recognized the ability of infantry to manoeuvre in constricted terrain unseen was extremely effective. Modern warfare reinforced the importance of protecting the soldiers and saw the development of mechanized infantry in armoured vehicles and air assaults. Infantry units are now used to patrol, escort and pursue moving unseen in areas of possible enemy activity to discern enemy deployments and ambush enemy patrols. Foot soldiers rely on their equipment, weaponry and clothing and that includes their boots. Each theatre of war demands clothing and footwear suitable to the geographical and climatic conditions and foot soldiers' boots have evolved to become some of the most sophisticated footwear on Earth. The term Digger came to refer to Australian military personnel since the Australian and New Zealand invlvement in the Vietnam War (1962-1973)but was previously recorded as being used to describe both Australian and New Zealand soldiers. No one is really sure of the origins of ‘digger’ but some authorities’ think it may have been a nickname given to new recruits from mining areas which they took to the Battle of Gallipoli (1916). There is no written evidence to support this and Australian troops were more commonly known as Kangaroos, or Tommy Kangaroo and sometimes Johnny Kangaroos at this time. Other nicknames were Cobblers, Trooper Redgum and Billjims. Certainly survival at Gallipoli was dependent on finding suitable cover and fox holes were life saving. Many linked to communicating trenches so the survivors of the nightmare landing may have earned the title because they survived by digging in. Diggers was used as a term of endearment by the British Tommy’s’ in 1916, when they referred to Maori battalions who dug out communicating trenches. After the Battle of the Somme (1916), Australian soldiers generally referred to themselves with pride as "Diggers." By 1917the name had spread from the New Zealand Division to the Australian Division in the ANZAC Corps and gained general acceptance. The sobriquet 'digger' was commonly used in World War II (1939-1945) to refer to Australian and New Zealand troops who fought side by side but in separate battalions. By the Vietnam War, Australian and New Zealand troops formed combined units and the term Kiwi was used to refer to New Zealanders and the Australians were called Diggers.

    toeslayer
     
  7. twirly

    twirly Well-Known Member

    I hope this does not offend anyone.

    I remember hearing this song for the first time sung by a British man called Mike Harding. I was moved to tears.

    The following lyrics were copied from the Pogues rendition of the same song.

    When I was a young man I carried my pack
    And I lived the free life of a rover
    From the murrays green basin to the dusty outback
    I waltzed my matilda all over
    Then in nineteen fifteen my country said son
    Its time to stop rambling cause theres work to be
    Done
    So they gave me a tin hat and they gave me a gun
    And they sent me away to the war
    And the band played waltzing matilda
    As we sailed away from the quay
    And amidst all the tears and the shouts and the
    Cheers
    We sailed off to gallipoli

    How well I remember that terrible day
    <when> the blood stained the sand and the water
    And how in that hell that they called suvla bay
    We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter
    Johnny turk he was ready, he primed himself well
    He <showered> us with bullets, he rained us with
    Shells
    And in five minutes flat hed blown us all to hell
    Nearly blew us right back to australia
    But the band played waltzing matilda
    As we stopped to bury our slain
    And we buried ours and the turks buried theirs
    Then <it> started all over again

    Now those <who were living did their best to survive>
    In <that> mad world of blood, death and fire
    And for <seven long> weeks I kept myself alive
    <while the corpses around me piled higher>
    Then a big turkish shell knocked me arse over tit
    And when I woke up in my hospital bed
    And saw what it had done, <christ> I wished I was
    Dead
    Never knew there were worse things than dying
    <and> no more Ill go waltzing matilda
    <to> the green <bushes so> far and near
    For to hump tent and pegs, a man needs two legs
    No more waltzing matilda for me

    So they collected the cripples, the wounded <and>
    Maimed
    And they shipped us back home to australia
    <the legless, the armless>, the blind <and> insane
    Those proud wounded heroes of suvla
    And as our ship pulled into circular quay
    I looked at the place where <me> legs used to be
    And thank christ there was nobody waiting for me
    To grieve and to mourn and to pity
    And the band played waltzing matilda
    As they carried us down the gangway
    But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared
    <and they> turned all their faces away

    And now every april I sit on my porch
    And I watch the parade pass before me
    <i see> my old comrades, how proudly they march
    Reliving <the or their> dreams of past glory
    <i see the old men, all twisted and torn>
    The forgotten heroes <of> a forgotten war
    And the young people ask <me>, what are they
    Marching for?
    And I ask myself the same question
    And the band plays waltzing matilda
    And the old men <still> answer to the call
    But year after year their numbers get fewer
    Some day no one will march there at all

    Waltzing matilda, waltzing matilda
    Wholl <go> a-waltzing matilda with me?


    Lest we forget.
     
  8. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    l cant remember missing one, as from a teenager l played at two marches( salvation Army Band) every year at Greensborough and Eltham for many years, these days l attend privately at the Whittlesea march with my children and parents, it is good to see the crowds have grown so much over the years, at Whittlesea it was a great crowd with a very broad age group.
    Something we should never forget and it is up to us to show our children the past and why "we owe so much to so few"
     
  9. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    The game has just finished and there was a shot of a different version of the ode on a banner:

    They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
    Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
    At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
    We will thrash Essendon


    Obviously from a Collingwood supporter (they won 154 - 81)

    Now its on to Crusaders vs Blues... heaps of ANZAC day symbolism before the game and a large 'poppy' painted on the ground.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2008
  10. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Twirly,

    My paternal grandfather, after WW11 active service in Syria and then in New Guinea, not only refused to march on Anzac Day but also never joined the RSL (Returned Service League in Australia). Apparently he was not alone.

    However I, who never served (being a past active participant in the Moratorium movement in Australia), am very aware of the sacrifice and misery caused by politicians sending our young off to kill and be killed. And so I DO attend the Anzac Day March as an enthusiastic "supportive" spectator! Definitely not alone!

    There is an Australian play, which used to be studied at school, asking this very question.

    We should never forget.
    The importance of studying history; hopefully makes us more aware of mistakes that have been made in the past which should help us be more reluctant to make them in the future. At present it's not looking good though, is it?

    All the best, Mark C
     
  11. :good:

    I was about to post something on those very lines.

    But since you have stollen my thunder, i shall content myself with some quotes.

    and my faovourite

    On which note, happy Anzac day

    Regards
    Robert
     
  12. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Time to bump this thread 12 months later. I will be at the local dawn service tomorrow AM with the Arena'ettes, so they can start to appreciate what this is all about and what it means.

    Ode of Remembrance

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    • From a page move: This is a redirect from a page that has been moved (renamed). This page was kept as a redirect to avoid breaking links, both internal and external, that may have been made to the old page name.
     
  13. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Just got home from this mornings Dawn Service at the Australian War Memorial, wet, cold, but thankful. Thankful to all that have and still do give themselves, servicemen & servicewomen and their relatives. The minister gave an excellent sermon, the service spokesperson also, no 'blood'n'guts', no politics. Turning up is the least I can do, mark.
     
  14. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    Just took the Arena'ettes to this years dawn service .... bring on the footy!
     
  15. markleigh

    markleigh Active Member

    One privelage of this job has been having so many veterans as patients over the years. They are getting thin on the ground but I have always been moved by their stories. My wifes grandfather fought on Kokoda & if I had my time again, I think I might have joined the defence force. An aside, but several years back I did a self tour of the Normandy beaches in France. It was a very emotional experience to stand where so many had bled & died. Thankyou to all our past & present defence force personnel.
     
  16. Some of us are fortunate to have met many veterans from WW1 early in our careers - I even had one veteran from the Boer War when I first graduated - and have listened to some incredible first hand accounts of the horrors they endured. One patient long dead was Tommy Patterson from Kirkcaldy in Scotland who wore his ribbons with pride on ANZAC Day and on Remembrance Sunday. He recounted once the problems they had with Foot Rot in the trenches. Like many young men he lied about his age at signed up when he was 15 years old and was duly dispatched to Contalmaison near the Somme. He spent 9 months in the trenches and was one of 68 who returned from his regiment of over 2,000 men. At the worst part of the offensive the trenches were knee deep in mud, blood, bodies, human waste of every description - you could only begin to imagine the effluent they had to stand in day in day out and the effect this had on their feet.

    These days it's warfare by computer and unmanned drones, which although it might not be quite the same as the trenches, it's still war and killing - which is what many of these veterans and their comrades supposedly fought to get rid of. As a previous poster commeted, our politicians of today have forgotten just what their sacrifice was all about...
     
  17. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Another 12 months on and tomorrow is time again to remember
     
  18. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Thanks mates.

    Bill

    (Easter Sunday 2011)
     
  19. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    Yet another 12 months and time to bump this tread again:
    The Arena'ettes came home from school today wearing ANZAC badges and talking all about the soldiers who died to protect us ... even as 5 yr olds, they get it. I showed them pictures from some of the WWI and WWII and Veitnam books I have .... we will up before dawn for the parade.



     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  20. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

    I can claim nothing in these circles. The nearest I have is a second cousin once removed who flew into power lines over Holland in '44. However, I have spent much of my adult life collecting data from dead people, from all over the word; good onya, all of you! The biggest buzz I got was from collecting data frm the hindfoot of Louisa Courtauld founder of the Courtauld textiles empire. To me she was 2309 of the Spitalfields collection (Natural History Museum, London); to her children she was their mother. Rob
     
  21. toughspiders

    toughspiders Active Member

    I shed a tear reading this posts! A darn sight less than those families did and are!
     
  22. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    Time for the annual bump of this thread...

    Just back from the Dawn Service with the Arena'ette's.
     
  23. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    Best and largest turn out l have seen this year at the Whittlesea march, two light horse lead the march, will pop a pic or 2 up on facebook soon
     
  24. normy

    normy Member

    As a retired podiatrist I chair a Royal British Legion branch.
    Do you all have a poppy box in your surgeries ,do you help with poppy collections?
    .Come :welcome: October /November we are always looking for help.
    As one who served in wartime and a retired podiatrist (can I use the title now?) I ask you to approach your local Legion branch and offer you help
    Norman
     
  25. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    Time for another bump of this thread. Tomorrow is the day:
    They had a special assembly at the end of today at the Arena'ette's school - they read the ode; played the last post and attempted a minute's silence (as best you could expect 300 kids to do!)
    Will be taking them to the dawn service tomorrow.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2016
  26. Paul B

    Paul B Active Member

    Craig, just give them lollies. That will bring silence. Well done old mate for pushing the post. Paul.
     
  27. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    Time for the 2015 bump of this thread .... 100 yrs ago today.

    Very proud of the girls ... up at 5.30AM this morning for the Dawn Service
     

    Attached Files:

  28. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    Time for the annual bump of this thread
    Very proud again of the Arena'ette's who this yr asked me if they could go to the dawn service (had to be up at 5AM) .... I did not have to ask them.
     

    Attached Files:

  29. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    Time for the annual bump of this thread

    They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
    Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
    At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
    We will remember them
     
  30. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
    Time for the annual bump of this thread...

    Missed the Dawn Service for the first time in a long time .... was in a plane ...
     
  31. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

    Time for the annual bump of this thread ... lest we forget
     
  32. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    G-G's speech: going to vietnam was right thing to do? invading afghanistan and iraq were the right thing to do?
    i blame the governments of the day, certainly not the defence force personnel
    'Lest we forget'
     
  33. WHY OLD MEN CRY

    I walked from Ypres to Passchendale
    In the first gray days of spring
    Through flatland fields where life goes on
    And carefree children sing Round rows of ancient tombstones
    Where a generation lies
    And at last I understood
    Why old men cry

    My mother's father walked these fields
    Some eighty years ago
    He was half the age that I am now
    No way that he could know
    That his unborn grandchild someday
    Would cross his path this way
    And stand here
    Where his fallen comrades lay
    He'd been dead a quarter century
    By the time that I was born
    The mustard gas which swept the trenches
    Ripped apart his lungs
    Another name and number
    Among millions there who died
    And at last I understood
    Why old men cry

    I walked from Leith to Newtongrange
    At the turning of the year
    Through desolate communities
    And faces gaunt with fear
    Past bleak, abandoned pitheads
    Where rich seams of coal still lie
    And at last I understood
    Why old men cry

    My father helped to win the coal
    That lay neath Lothian's soil
    A life of bitter hardship
    The reward for years of toil
    But he tried to teach his children
    There was more to life than this
    Working all your life
    To make some fat cat rich
    I walked from Garve to Ullapool
    As the dawn light kissed the earth
    And breathed the awesome beauty
    Of this land that gave me birth
    I looked into the future
    Saw a people proud and free
    As I looked along Loch Broom
    Out to the sea ​
     
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