London Riots

Robert,
I understand the scenario you are painting but if the police had any sense they would let them all get on with it.

MW,
maybe 2 wrongs don't make a right but it looks like it is the best we have at the moment. The government has recalled Parliament but is doing b***** all else except spout platitudes via our Theresa.

I live on the edge of a farming area and the nearest large urban area is over 25 miles away. However, I understand that the gunshop in the village has run out of shotgun cartridges. Make what you will of that.

CF

 

I can't see things getting as bad as your theoratical situation Rob. These people are cowards, and cowards usually back down when their bluff is called. At the moment no-one is calling it. I'm not suggesting I'm for a vigilante group - but this situation will be fastest resolved with force. End of. Most of these opportunistic looters seem to be teenagers. If they can get away with this behaviour now (and realise they can) then what on earth will they be like by the time thay are 30? By which time they have their own teenage children...and so the cycle perpetuates...

I'm on a train out of London as I type this. Its passing through Tottenham, Waltham Cross, and Enfield. I am the only person in the entire carriage. My train in this morning at 6.40am was about 10% full - I normally struggle to get a seat. The City (square mile) seemed much quieter than usual. Clearly people who can are sensibly working from home. At what cost to our economy I wonder?

A part of me thinks that by the time I'm back in London on Thursday morning it will look like a scene from the film Robocop...

 

Well, it WAS a theoretical situation . What is not theoretical is that if 50 Police got injured yesterday, complete with riot gear, training and organisation, then sooner or later vigilantes would get in over their heads and the police would be called upon to pull their arses out of the fire! The Police don't want that. Makes their life harder.

Also consider this. At the moment a bloke on the street at 11 pm with a bat is a rioter and can be dealt with as such. If there are vigilantes everywhere then the police have to determine what they are before they can administer justice at a distance.

But I'm all in favour of more force. Like I said, tear gas, water cannon and suchlike would stop it being fun in short order! But it does not need the military, or a bunch of locals to administer.

 

sometimes , I really detest this Country, this is purely the rising of the underclass, who have largely been fed by the state and left alone to please themselves.

 

As a former SPG and TSG officer I am not surprised at the ‘confused’ response of the police - one minute they are told that they are being too aggressive with 'Kettling' next minute too soft, now the public are demanding the Army!! Cut police numbers, cut police overtime and the government/public still want the police to protect them - but whatever you do don't behave like the US, French, German police - we won’t accept that

I was at the 1981 and 1985 riots - being the first van into Griffin Rd on the Broadwater Farm and then seeing the 100 plus stab wounds in Keith Blakelocks body and neck. I hoped this wouldn't ever happen again.

British public ‘apparently’ want the utopia of ‘Policing by consent’ but the reality is the public doesn’t actually want a role in it – which they must for it to succeed - they rather let the police get on with it and complain with the advantage of hindsight. Councils/Governments pay out millions each year to community leaders to improve relationships with youth, police, businesses etc – where are they now? Surely they must do something for their money.

In the mid 90’s I had dinner with the author Roger Graef who received an OBE for his documentary work with the Police, he stated ‘what policing by consent actually means is; the public gets the police service it deserves’.

16,000 Police on the streets of London tonight –

Persoanlly these kids need to work, stop giving them excuses - I hated the way the BBC reported the shooting 'suggesting the Police shot first. Of those arrested they should be put on a plane to Helman Provence and lets see if they can 'own' the Taliban

 

This has nothing to with class distinction nor state benefits. Charlie Gilmore, as indeed the majority of students who previously caused similar upheaval not so long ago, had privileged upbringings (and I don`t just mean having a very, very talented father), yet still felt at liberty to riot. As Robert pointed out, history reveals that rioting and looting stems from nothing more than pure greed.

 

I wonder...

There must be 10 false reports of riots for every actual one. How many of the reports we hear are true?

I suspect that they'll be more reporters out tonight than police! I'll believe when I see.

 

i must add, the underclass who feel the country owes them a living and the things that we graft our nuts off, for them to get it for "free". shoot the lot

 

That would be the greedy ones, then?

 

Yes and there will be reporters 'helping' to create reports too!

 

undisputedly about greed blinda. We have sucessfully allowed government after government to empower the underclass, protect their rights, and allowed them to use benefits as a way of staying out of work. I wear cheap trainers, drive a modest car, take modest holidays and the rest of it. I work for everything I have, and never once thought, "hey, This country owes me more than this so i will just take what i want".

Unfortunately, the seeds of the problems started waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy back.

 

Fine for you CF perhaps if you were trapped by the mob that were setting fire to your house with you in it as happened here in Croydon last night you might get a different perspective on that statement

D

 

One of the rioters yesterday was asked why she was robbing PC world.

She relied "I'm getting my taxes back".

Says it all really.

 

That was Mark Stone who recorded it from his iPhone. Man deserves an award.

Irony being I doubt she's ever paid a penny in them.

 

Initiate a bloody curfew. Anyone out after the set time is up to no good. These individuals aren't pleading poverty or demanding improved housing they are performing acts of terrorism & should be treated accordingly.

Just the opening Al Qaeda need to form an attack. We are undermanned & things are looking quite bleak!

Just hope I'm wrong.


Now Ebay for 'build your own bunker' .

PS I'm not providing clues. The clueless have already emptied Currys & Comet!!!!!

 

This situation should be policed properly- like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnMLGkj91Og&feature=related

 

DTT,
You missed my point.

When I said that the police should "let them all get on with it". I meant the police should let the vigilantes slug it out with the rioters.

I agree that a curfew could be a good way to go.

Unfortunately if the Old Bill don't get their act together soon I predict there will be a few Tony Martins appearing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

CF

 

London is a 24 hour city. How much income would be lost by putting a curfew in place across the whole city? Will this be more or less than the cost of the looting and rioting?

Anyway, it's not just the village, lots of cities are in for a rough night. Shall we put a blanket curfew on every UK city?

Just shoot the ****ers. Leaning to the right a little on this.

 

So lets throw the Olympics into the mix.

How long before nations embassys advise against travel to the UK due to political unrest?

6 years ago my beloved booked our honeymoon to Turkey. I checked with the UK consulate website (paranoia due to recent bombings at that time) advised: travel okay be aware of suspect packages!' Little risk of political unrest.

Ivory coast was flagged as AVOID ALL TRAVEL as 'Political unrest situation.' Possibly calmer there than here at the moment?

Only my 'take' on the situation........ Don't come here. The place has gone nuts!

Economic down turn heading south---------->

Looters will not pay the price for this last few days. The taxpayers will.

 

No I havent missed the point CF you have just clarified it

And I repeat

I believe the curfew has been suggested to get the 7 to 10 year olds off the streets after 7pm as I understand it.

I too have a rural cottage in a small village with each resident having a shotgun.

Here I have a Walther pistol and should push come to shove and anyone got in here that shouldnt be here, I would take Simons advice but not make the same mistake as Tony Martin...He Left one of them alive :butcher:

Cheers
D

 

I got a plan, if anyone wants to hear it... Not enough police to cover the whole village- right? Put enough Police into one area to arrest a significant number. Invite the media. Take prisoners and publicly flog them in front of full media coverage.

Like I said, leaning to the right... my clinic was broken into a couple of weeks ago. I've absolutely no sympathy for these idiots, give 'em a lick of the cat (I'm not a real pirate, I've just lived in Plymouth too long). Lets face it, the TV is rubbish at the moment anyway.... put 'em in the movies, I'll laugh my ass off as they cry for their mamas fat asses to come and save 'em.

Birch the ****ers in Trafalgar Square on the spare plinth- we'll call it public art.

A generation and their ****ed up-offspring generation who have never had any discipline- this is what it has created. ****ing morons. Run the morons down with horses, water canons, riot vans, whatever it takes. Round 'em up and publicly humiliate them. Put 'em in stocks so we can all throw sh!t at the morons.

Do this and I guarantee the only things roaming the streets of the village tomorrow night with intent would be some tumbleweed, a few empty coffee cups and some urban foxes.

 

Look Si, I keep tellin Ya, Dont mince your words just say wot you really mean !!

Cheers
D

 

Yeah, and then deport 'em back to their country of origin. None of this human rights ****, you've just given up your human rights by your demonstrable lack of regard for anyone else. Just an opinion.

 

Simon actually like your style

But let us make better use of this new resource
1) Put them on a plane and fly them to Afghanistan and see if they can 'own' the streets there
2) Bring back the soliders.

Now where did we put those rioters?

 

The solution is easy; We have enough Center Parc `villages` in the UK, stick `em in there. True reform.

 

Some National Service might not be a bad idea, discussed this today with a number of patients who have fought for and served our country- several ex-commandos in today. The general consensus was that they are ashamed and saddened by what our country has become. Why is it that everyone I talk to can see the problems and the solutions, but the politicians can't?

 

Sweden has had compulsory 12 months in the armed service up until about 5 years I think could be wrong, was not that long ago is stopped being compulsory. Anyway they used to say this was the year that Swedish boys became men.

Stopped be compulsory now and older folks say they see the difference in the younger.

 

That might be a little too harsh.

 

Hush! I is booked for Nov' 2011!

No pansies permitted. We Brits R well 'ard........

I need Centerparcs. I needs peace (& a gallop)

No riots please R Bel

 

Nice bit of ridin` there Mand`.

Can`t guarantee it, if I am forced to go with family again. There`s no escape.

 

Fairy nuffs so long as I get a head start.

 

Sadly the very openess and mass media coverage of the riots feeds the imagination- here we all are on this forum speculating and predicting what will happen and how to solve it.

The first thing to happen should be the temporary suspension of facebook and other social networking sites. There is no doubt that the ability to communicate with the masses has been the catalyst to get people together to create havoc. In addition to this, surely some of the media coverage should be curtailed so that information on where the police are going to be remains unknown or on a need to know basis. There is too much information broadcast.

I feel very sorry for anyone who has been affected , I am in a safe place as far as I know , but I have to say I feel ashamed to be British at this moment in time.

Cm

 

It also helps the police to identify those involved, so not such a bad thing. If the morons continue to boast and brag on facebook it will make arresting them even easier. Then allow the media to film them crying as the public throw sh!t at them while they serve their penance in the stocks. Call me old fashioned... Like I give a **** about these morons.

Stone 'em. "Two points, two flats and a packet of gravel" Yes please. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk

 

Conscription ???
Ask any regular soldier if he wants a conscript fighting alongside him ??????

NOT !!

CM

I have had my 10 year old Grandson on the phone tonight distraught because he fears for Nanny and Grandads safety as we live in Croydon and has witnessed what has happened on the news

The information given out is I'm sure controlled the other way to which you suggest ie they will say they have police here there and everywhere to throw the rioters in a different direction.

People must be made aware ( even my grandson at his age) what happens when scummy ferral scrotes are allowed to take over because they have no breeding or morals.

When I see my Grandson and my other 3 Grand kids I will sit them all down and explain why I and their parents tell them off and discipline them, and as much as they dont like it........it is because we love them and will never let them turn out as arseholes :empathy::butcher:.


Ashamed to be British CM ??

I saw a guy of west indian origin on a news interview stating he was ashamed to be a black man because of this, I felt genuine sympathy for him:empathy:

I have said many times in the past on this forum I am ashamed to be ENGLISH and the reasons why, and been accused of Rascism.

THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT !!
D

 

Honest guv'nor - I bought 40 iPhones on O2 for my friends and family and none of them wanted them...

http://london.craigslist.co.uk/mob/2536072357.html

 

Convicted London rioters should loose all benefits: E-Petition

 

Loose the village-centric bit and I'd sign up. This country does not begin and end with the village of London :bash: For the record, there were riots in several areas of England last night, not just in the village.

 

Just tried to sign up Si

Cant get onto the site.....Toooooooooooooo Busy

More villagers than you think in this village perhaps

Cheers
D

All quiet at the moment here Thankfully:drinks

 

and there we have it

 

2011 England riots

6–11 August 2011 riots in cities and towns across England

The 2011 England riots, more widely known as the London riots, were a series of riots between 6 and 11 August 2011. Thousands of people rioted in cities and towns across England, which saw looting and arson, as well as mass deployment of police and the deaths of five people.^[10]

The protests started in Tottenham Hale, London, following the death of Mark Duggan, a local black man who was shot dead by police on 4 August.^[11] Several violent clashes with police followed Duggan's death, along with the destruction of police vehicles, a double-decker bus and many homes and businesses; which rapidly gained the attention of the media. Overnight, looting took place in Tottenham Hale retail park and in nearby Wood Green. The following days saw similar scenes in other parts of London, with the worst rioting taking place in Hackney, Brixton, Walthamstow, Wandsworth, Peckham, Enfield, Battersea, Croydon, Ealing, Barking, Woolwich, Lewisham and East Ham.

From 8 to 11 August, other towns and cities in England (including Birmingham, Bristol, Coventry, Derby, Leicester, Liverpool, Manchester and Nottingham) faced what was described by the media as "copycat violence", with social media playing a role. By 10 August, more than 3,000 arrests had been made across England, with at least 1,984 people facing criminal charges for various offences related to the riots.^[9][12][13] Initially, courts sat for extended hours. A total of 3,443 crimes across London were linked to the disorder.^[14] Along with the five deaths, at least 16 others were injured^[update] as a direct result of related violent acts. An estimated £200 million worth of property damage was incurred, and local economic activity – which in many cases was already struggling due to the 2008 recession – was significantly compromised.

Significant debate was generated among political, social, and academic figures about the causes and context of the riots. Attributions for the rioters' behaviour included social factors such as racial tension, class tension, economic decline and its consequent unemployment.^{[6][13][15][16]}

1. ^ Rogers, Simon; Sedghi, Ami; Evans, Lisa (11 August 2011). "UK riots: every verified incident – interactive map". The Guardian. Archived from the original on 15 November 2016. Retrieved 10 December 2016.
2. ^ Payne, Sebastian (9 August 2011). "London riots map: all incidents mapped in London and around the UK". The Daily Telegraph. Archived from the original on 20 September 2017. Retrieved 3 April 2018.
3. ^ Cite error: The named reference independent_injuries was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
4. ^ Cite error: The named reference bbc_mugging was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
5. ^ "Police staff working rest days to cover riot workload". Public and Commercial Services Union. 12 August 2011. Archived from the original on 28 August 2011.
6. ^ ^{a b} "Britain's rioters count cost of unrest as order restored". CNN. 12 August 2011. Archived from the original on 14 January 2012. Retrieved 12 August 2011.
7. ^ "Live Updates From Sky News Team And Twitter: Riots Spread Across London". BSkyB. Archived from the original on 11 August 2011. Retrieved 11 August 2011.
8. ^ Wilson, Peter (11 August 2011). "Police warning on vigilante justice after English riots". The Australian. Archived from the original on 11 August 2011. Retrieved 11 August 2011.
9. ^ ^{a b} "England rioters "poorer, younger, less educated"". BBC News. 24 October 2011. Retrieved 16 October 2020.
10. ^ Bridges, Lee (20 June 2012). "Four days in August: the UK riots". Race & Class. 54 (1). Thousand Oaks, California: SAGE Publishing: 1–12. doi:10.1177/0306396812446564. ISSN 0306-3968. S2CID 145666650.
11. ^ "Riots in Tottenham after Mark Duggan shooting protest". BBC News. 7 August 2011. Archived from the original on 19 January 2012. Retrieved 30 January 2012.
12. ^ "London riots: More than 3,000 arrested". BBC News. 7 November 2011. Retrieved 16 October 2020.
13. ^ ^{a b} "England's week of riots". BBC News. 15 August 2011. Archived from the original on 23 June 2018. Retrieved 20 June 2018.
14. ^ "London riots: More than 2,000 people arrested over disorder". Daily Mirror. 25 August 2011.
15. ^ Lewis, Paul (7 August 2011). "Tottenham riots: a peaceful protest, then suddenly all hell broke loose". The Guardian. Archived from the original on 27 September 2013. Retrieved 7 August 2011.
16. ^ "Tottenham in flames as protesters riot". The Guardian. London. 6 August 2011. Archived from the original on 27 September 2013. Retrieved 6 August 2011.

Read More