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Parish & Bell clinic gone under?

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by tkpa, Feb 17, 2009.

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  1. tkpa

    tkpa Guest

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    I had Parish & Bell make me two pairs of orthotics almost two years ago, for a cost of nearly £1500 (however with a 100% money back guarantee if you're not cured, I thought this was worth it). The orthotics didnt cure my foot issues, and I went for three re-fittings all unsuccessful. I called them again in mid-january for another and final re-fitting before asking for my money back and their telephone line had a recorded messages saying 'please call back during office hours'.

    Since then I've called back approx 25-30 time in the last month all during business hours and they're simply not picking up their phones or nobody is there to pick it up. Also, they're not responding to email communications (emailed office manager and their admin person). Despite all this their website is still up advertising for their usual services.

    All this leads me to believe that the company has either gone bankrupt, and/or they've simply cut and run with money from all their clients to avoid having to pay people back.

    Companies house still lists them as active, however their accounts for this year are overdue, so could be a bad sign (http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/1048d7d728927464a7c09a900018465e/compdetails).

    If anyone has any details on this, as I know they're a 'well-known' company, any information would be more than appreciated!!

    Many thanks.

    PS. Apologies if this is already covered on another topic, I did do a quick search to try and see.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2009
  2. twirly

    twirly Well-Known Member

    Hi tkpa,

    If it were me I would be inclined to attempt to make an appointment as a new patient. If they are still offering services the 'back door' & undercover until you spring the surprise may provide a face to face contact. Other than that I suggest contacting Trading Standards & lodging a formal complaint againt the Co. for the goods you were sold.

    Hope you get your refund.


  3. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    We did try to ring them from the Manchester Boot Camp when the above message was posted. We got a recorded message: "Currently closed....open business hours Mon-Fri 9 -5" ... it was 2.00PM when we rung!

    One person at the mtg did think they had heard that they gone under ... watch this space.
  4. Heard this from other people. I fear, welcome guest, that your recourse has vanished (such as it was.)

    They got done for claiming a 98.5% success rate BTW. Check the ASA website.

  5. Karen Knightly

    Karen Knightly Active Member

    Unfortunately, this is a common scenario of events with this company, although this is the first I've heard of there being no reply at all.

    My clinic is not that far away from Carshalton and I've had many an angry patient who has experienced the hard sell, spent an awful lot of money and not been happy with the results either. Some patients were frightened off by the hard selling techniques they use and didn't want to even embark on any treatment from them in the first place.

    If they have gone down, quite frankly, it's no wonder....

    Karen Knightly
  6. William Fowler

    William Fowler Active Member

    Like Karen I have seen many of their VERY unhappy patients. Makes a mockery of their 99% success rate claim they allege in the ASA case:
  7. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Whether P and B have gone under or not, they have demonstrated quite clearly that the Adertising Standards Authority in the UK is highly ineffective when dealing with this type of service.

    P and B were merely asked to remove the 98% cure-rate claim from their adverts.
    They responded (I believe) by lowering their claim rate slightly and providing "audit data";) to show that this was now correct. At worst this would give them a good breathing space before the next ASA adjudication. At best, the ASA would believe the figures and do nothing.

    For anyone in the UK who has not seen the adverts, they advertised heavily (1/2-page ads) in national newspapers, sometimes on a weekly basis.
  8. crazyxxxx

    crazyxxxx Guest

    Good riddens to bad rubbish that what I say.

    I bought two pairs of soles from them the biggest pile of C---p you ever did see. Had to go to credit card company to get my money back as they refued to refund my money. Got it back through credit card company.

    Just rung the phone number now and the line has been cut off.

    Well worth investing £2.00 in companies house as he has 4 companies running , he claims the soles are made in America !!!.

    The office staff were vvery rude when you phoned and he could not be bothered to reply to your letters it was always some one in the office who replyed you could never speak to him direct.

    Well Mr Bailey if you had treated your customers with respect and looked after us all instead of ripping us off you would still have had a business.
  9. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi All

    Just went past the Carshalton P & B, got a freehold for sale board over the shop.

    I suppose it could be for the flat above but.......... dont think so

  10. Dr. DSW

    Dr. DSW Active Member

    I happen to know one of the labs in the U.S.A. that manufacturers their products. I spoke with the owner of the lab, and he informed me that Parish & Bell is out of business.

    He didn't tell me, but from his "inference" I believe that they also owe him some money. He also told me that he believed the plan was for P&B to "re-structure" and re-open sometime in the near future.

    Buyer beware. Unfortunately another sucker will be born.
  11. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi All

    I think knowing some of the facts which stopped him practicing at his old oesteopath clinic and bouncing back from that with P & B..

    I fear it may not be the last we hear of Les Bailey and co:rolleyes:

  12. Hello Everyone,

    As I said in my introductory message, I wish I'd known about this forum before...
    I spent my fortune with Parish & Bell in the autumn. I was desperate as I have a heel spur and my hard orthotics hurt so much I was in pain with every step I took.
    I couldn't believe the price and had an image in my mind of being held over a barrel...
    I didn't enjoy the company of Mr Les Bailey and have regretted not doing more thorough research before getting involved with the company.

    However, I'm rambling:) and could go on!!!!!!

    Last week being unable to get a response from the office, I contacted the local press and I had a phone-call about a half-hour ago to say it's confirmed, they've gone into voluntary liquidation.

    The Insolvency practioners are:
    Mark Bloom
    60-62 Old London Rd
    KT2 6QZ

    Perhaps we should get together or all contact 'You and Yours' the cosumer prog. on Radio 4 so they can do a proper investigation into him with a hope of this not reoccurring in the future.

  13. Dr. DSW

    Dr. DSW Active Member


    No offense, but this is not a "chat" forum, but really is a forum for medical professionals. Therefore I'm not sure that this is the right place for your concerns or needs.

    This is not a forum for patients or consumers, but a forum for medical professionals.

    Thank you.
  14. chris blake

    chris blake Welcome New Poster


    I too have been trying to contact P & B without success.

    I had 3 (three) !! pairs of orthotics - cost £1800.00 - from them from june 2007 but they need the tops repairing already & one pair needs re-adjusting to its original specification.

    Anyone know where I can get the tops replaced on these and work done on them by a (reputable) company ?

    I too felt under enormous pressure to get these orthotics - when you are in pain you will go for anything that sounds good (too good to be true actually).

  15. I know a guy ;)

    Sent you a PM.

    To be fair i don't expect devices to last much beyond 2 years.

  16. Hello Dr DSW

    I realise that I'm not a medical professional but having read all the emails in this particular thread, it appeared to me not all the posts are from professionals.
    It was my intention to help others too by sharing information- that was my initial concern but then I ended up writing some history- apologies for that!

  17. les bailey

    les bailey Welcome New Poster

    I am Les Bailey and I would like to reply to much of the downright slanderous rubbish i have read on this forum, posted by "professionals" who should know better.

    Firstly, Parish and Bell is sadly in liquidation after many years of very successful work.

    The inaccuracies writen about the 98.95% success rate and trading standards are totally mid-read. Firstly, it was not decided that they could not quantify this accurately and we were never prosecuted for this but merely advised it may be better to change it to over 90%.

    The reasons Parish and Bell went into liquidation are many-fold, but I will outline factors, none of which relate at all to our phenomenal success rate and thousands of patients cleared of pain where standard orthotics were unable to help.

    We used an Irish laboratory for a while, as opposed to our usual american lab. The samples and promises of superior orthotics were not forthcoming and most of these were replaced by us using our usual USA lab. In hindsight, I feel this lab's clinics were in competition with us and my own personal feeling is that these were pusposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse. In short, what was promised and what transpired were two very different orthotics. However, we replaced these for patients at our own vast cost.

    Our bank were calling in overdrafts and loans at the same time we received huge tax bills and , like many companies in the credit crunch, we collapsed.

    I realise we upset many podiatrists along the way by monopolising the market but our success rate was phenomenally higher and despite the negativity inaccurately displayed by people on this thread, we helped thousands of patients where other orthotics had failed.

    If anyone thinks for one minute that this liquidation was in some strange way a means of "scamming" people they are very very wrong. We enjoyed many fine years helping our patients and would have liked to continue had circumstances allowed us.

    If it is of any consolation to anyone, I myself am going babkrupt with the difficulties this bring to my family ahead, so I too am in the same boat.

    The professionals posting on this thread may take note that I am passing the slanderous posts (sadly nearly all) to our lawyers.

    Finally, to our patients, I am deeply and truly sorry if you are one who has lost money and I would like you to know this was in no way intended.

    All of our past failures (luckily very few!) received their promised refunds and I truly regret we cannot do this for the very recent ones.

    My very deepest sympathy and kind regards

    Les Bailey
  18. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Les

    I have read some nauseating posts in my time but yours beats em all:D

    Well done:wacko:

    I have a practice very close to one of your shops in fact your chiropractor sends me many of your failures to sort out.

    I find the 80 year olds that you have charged £1000's of pounds to "cure them" (which failed miserably BTW) for your orthotics that came to me in tears because they were not only in pain but IMHO had been ripped off by your organisation:butcher:

    The others who's orthotics had "failed" who couldn't face the "pressure "of bringing them back for the sales pitch also need a mention.

    And the NAME of the Irish orthotics lab is ???? ( just so none of us use them to the detriment of our patients)

    Go for it fella!! many of us have the evidence to back up what we are saying and patients willing to tell it like it is as well:cool:

    Talk to the patient that started this thread let her put your "success rate" on the internet and see how many "dissatisfied clients" you really have

    Get real Les enough is enough IMHO you've made your money ,don't make it worse for these people by giving the crocodile tears Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzze:rolleyes:

    Cheers ( and goodbye I hope)

    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
  19. les bailey

    les bailey Welcome New Poster

    Dear Mr Harland

    Your libelous and untrue postings show you to be very unprofessional and a disgrace to your practice.

    Our success rate is based on solid facts and P&B became a hallmark for practices across the world many of whom have seeked to copy my unique orthotic structure

    Of course our satisfied patients will not come on this forum as they are too busy enjoying the new freedom of life we have given them

    Sadly liquidation happens all the time and this was totally and completely out of my control

    Now I suggest you seek to understand that any business can fall prey to the recession

    Les Bailey
  20. Hello Mr Bailey

    You said

    For the edification of any following the thread, and for Mr Bailey's Lawyers this is an direct quote from the ASA website accessed today which i hope will clarify matters.

    The highlights are mine.

    So. You say you were advised to change your ad. Looks to me like they say your Ad was unsubstantiated and untruthful and that you were TOLD to REMOVE the claim. Not advised, told. Their words. Seems pretty clear to me.

    So one hopes that any practices who "seeked" to copy your structure, as you put it, also seek guidance from CAP with regards to advertising so that their ads do not also breach substantiation and truthfulness clauses as yours did.

    Kindest regards

  21. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Mr Bailey

    (Oh so formal:D)

    A practice that still thrives through truth to the patient and professionalism obviously beyond your imagination:cool:

    but not your IMHO EXTORTIONATE fee structure which caused much distress and financial hardship to many for no return.

    I'll ask you again Mr Bailey ,You made the statement now answer the question

    I believe , what goes around comes around Mr Bailey and you have got your just deserts ( of course IMHO:rolleyes:)


    Mr Harland (or Del to his friends;) )
  22. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Welcome. You have the opportunity to put your side of the story.
    I think Robert address your claims - anyone can follow the link to the ASA site and read them for themselves. To can attempt to rationalise it anyway you like, but the facts are there for anyone to see.
    I love the way you blame everyone but yourself. If your business was so successful then this would not have happened. Despite the credit crunch, banks would have supported you if your business model was any good. Tax bills should have been planned for. Are you not using the credit crunch as a scapegoat rather than accept personal responsibility? You are trying to rationalise it by blaming everyone else! (and I know more about that than you think)
    I doubt that. If you have upset Podiatrists its because of all the patients that they get to see that have been subjected to the high pressure sales tactics and prices for your product that is bordering on extortion. It not jealousy, it more concern at your ethical principles in doing what you do.<o:p></o:p>

    Then prove it by making good personally on those who want their money back. I think, based on the prices you were charging and the unsupported claims about the unique nature of your product, its pretty damn close to a scam. You obviously saw a place in the market to make a fast buck - companies eventually tend to go under that use that as a business model.<o:p></o:p>

    Essentially the product that you were offering is no different to what is very widely available for a fraction of the price. You made claims about your product that are not sustainable. In fact, all the evidence from well designed randomised controlled trials is that cheaper prefabricated foot orthotics get the same outcomes for heel pain as the type of product you are offering (but as an self proclaimed expert on foot orthoses, you will be familiar with this evidence).<o:p></o:p>
    Obviously, many of those who were not happy were NOT returning for refunds (see the posts above from Podiatrists who had to sort the mess out).<o:p></o:p>
    You made a choice to charge what is close to being an extortionate price for the product. You made claims about the product that are not supported. Most of the claims you made on your website about what you were doing is not supportable with the evidence, and would be very easy to rebuff in a court of law. It is easy to go through your website and breakdown and rebuff so much of what you claim. I think what you were doing is, at best, a scam and, at worst, fraud.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    You make claims above about: <o:p></o:p>
    Were is your “professionalism” and “ethics” in the context of the many untrue claims you make on your website (would love to argue those with you in a court of law as they will be easy to deal with), the untrue unique claims about your product and the close to extortionist price you charge (when the same product is available for a fraction of the cost in many other places)<o:p></o:p>

    <o:p> </o:p>
    Please do. We love hearing from lawyers. We will have fun with them.<o:p></o:p>

    With luck this thread will rank high on the search engines and the world can see what has happened<o:p></o:p>

    Craig Payne
  23. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Craig

    Thank you for thet frank and truthful post.:good:

    I am at this point getting emails from a ???

    Call me old fashioned but does this smack of.......:rolleyes:


    My choice

    Followed by

    it was incomplete at that point:confused:

    Sad innit:sinking:

    The fact is as you said we are commenting on the ETHICS of the business and if the foregoing has any bearing...

    Game set and match to us ??


    Del ;) or Mr ( I do have an FSSCh) Harland (for mr Baileys sake):D
  24. David Wedemeyer

    David Wedemeyer Well-Known Member

    Excellent post Craig and probably what all of us are thinking. They charged in some cases quadruple the high end of the going rate for in-shoe devices made by a lab here in the U.S. that at least one D.P.M. that I am friendly with has used for years. I know for a fact that he doesn't charge anywhere near this amount for orthoses, nor does he proffer them on every patient who walks in his doors.

    Craig's comment that you take no responsibility for the events of late is the absolute truth. Name the lab who you allude to in the statement that your products "were purposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse". I would like them to have the opportunity to respond to your outright suspect recrimination. Perhaps their lawyers would like to get together with your lawyers....etc? :boohoo:

    I am curious where Les and Colin learned their trade in orthoses? Colin is a McTimoney (?) chiropractor and you are an osteopath as I understand it? Just what are the number of didactic hours of education devoted in either college to the process of evaluation, diagnosis, treatment, goal planning, design and manufacture of foot orthoses in either program? :hammer:

    I can tell you with all due certainty that in the required chiropractic curriculum it is zero. I had to become a certified pedorthist before becoming acutely aware that my skills were inferior to the experts, podiatrists, and have spent many years studying the subject prior to feeling even remotely competent in the subject (and I am still learning and still charge a modest fee) but you and your staff are the experts? That takes all!

    Shame on you Mr. Bailey.
  25. Dr. DSW

    Dr. DSW Active Member

    Ironically, I am a moderator on another website forum that deals with heel pain and other foot/ankle ailments. Over the past several days patients from the UK have suddenly been "popping up" looking for a resolution to their nightmare experiences with Parish & Bell.

    Many have had poor results, many need adjustments, many want refunds, many have been promised that their problems would be resolved, etc. But the greatest and most unacceptable "CRIME" was that many paid hard earned money for SEVERAL pairs, when Mr. Bailey apparently knew that his business was closing and that the orthoses were never going to be delivered.

    Patients stated that they paid for orthoses or were sold orthoses right up to the "end", which is in direct contrast to Mr. Bailey's statement that he tried to make restitution to all those he could. If that's the case, why was he still taking orders and money???

    All I know from the other website, is that there are a LOT of unhappy customers. If I was Mr. Bailey, I would not want to walking around the streets near the old establishment without wearing a disguise:boxing:
  26. Man, I love this stuff. Always have enjoyed the movies where the bad guy gets what he deserves in the end. Divine justice....some would say.

    And, in regards to the threats for legal action, one of the orthopedic surgeons I worked with for many years had a great line for those who said that they were going to sue him.........

    "Take a number and get in line!!":boxing::cool:
  27. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    I had a read of the messages - very sad for the people involved with wanting help for their problems. I also came across a thread on a consumer website about them as well. Given all these disgruntled patients are coming out of the woodwork, it does make a mockery of their claims about their success rate. Some of the $ amounts being mentioned are extraordinary! ... one mentioned £2270 for 3 pairs ... how can anyone with an ounce of ethics and professionalism justify this? The lab would have only charged them around £250 for the 3 (or even less as there would have been a discount for multiple pairs!).

    Also, how could any company charging those kinds of amounts and claiming such a success rate and claiming to be doing so much business, actually go out of business?
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  28. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Mr Bailey
    Just in case you don't understand the question

    You have made a very serious allegation against an orthotics laboratory who you imply are deliberately making devices to cause patients harm in an effort to damage your reputation.

    What is the name of that laboratory??

    I also wonder with your threats of legal action, if you have enough money to go to law with so many people ( which will cost a small fortune) would you not be better paying refunds to those you have treated so badly?

    That wouldn't do your reputation any harm would it ?:rolleyes:

    Mr Wedemyer asked another question

    What are you calling yourself these days Mr Bailey??

    Is there a reason you stopped using the Osteopath title?

    Do tell :rolleyes:

    Mr Harland;)
  29. bodybuz

    bodybuz Welcome New Poster

    Thankyou for this information as i myself have been conned. Fortunately i only bought one pair which cost £650. I think the money back guarantee is what sold the product to us. people like myself who are desperate to rid ourselves of this ongoing foot pain will sometimes take risks, and this is basically what i have done. I should have read the warning signs but i was blinkered by the article in the paper and on the web site of all the successes they had had. This was £650 just thrown in the bin. I have had the orthotics three months and already they are wearing down under the first and fifth met . Upon examination of the so called wonder insole it appears that two layers have been fused together to form one very flimsy piece of work. I wish i had paid by credit card, but who has a crystal ball. If anyone discovers a way of getting their money back please let me know and vice versa.

  30. Dr. DSW

    Dr. DSW Active Member

    In the upcoming year, when you decide to have a "quote of the year", I will take my first place prize NOW for my entry!!

    Because there is NO WAY that Mr. Bailey's line below can not take first place. This may be the quote of the century!!!!!

    "I feel this lab's clinics were in competition with us and my own personal feeling is that these were pusposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse".

    Yes, the old "make the orthoses wrong" conspiracy. Makes a company go out of business every time.....never fails. I believe it's on page 7 of the "put your competitor out of business handbook".

    What a crock of xxxx!!!
  31. Come now Mr Harland. If we are talking searching questions i think there are several more interesting ones than asking Mr Bailey to specify which lab he is making such a potentially libelous (?) accusation of!

    Things like

    1. Your website states that you sell 4000 - 5000 pairs per year. At an average cost of lets say £600 each (and thats being very kind) thats an income of between £2million and 3 million per year! How on earth can a company pulling in that kind of money go bust?! You must have some CRAZY overheads.

    2. You claim and continued to claim on your website in spite of the ASA adjudication a 98.95% success rate. This being the case WHY WOULD YOU SWITCH TO A DIFFERENT LAB?

    Did you think you could get that last niggling little 1.05% off the stats? Or was the new lab cheaper? Can be hard to scrape a profit margin when selling devices for over £1000. We've all felt that pinch.:boohoo:

    Mind you, you say in your own literature
    so you really should have known better.

    Warmest regards


    PS. You may be noticing a certain lack of sympathy for your plight here. Can't think why. Never mind. Who knows, perhaps you may one day start a new company providing orthotics! Any immediate plans in that direction?
  32. cornmerchant

    cornmerchant Well-Known Member

    I personally think it is about time you all reread your forum etiquette. This is not a professional debate, more like a slanging match.

    I have seen people pulled up for less than this.
  33. dergaz

    dergaz Welcome New Poster

    Hi, i am the person who paid for those orthotics to Parish and Bell and Mr Bailey. I feel duped and stupid that i paid that amount for them,but i seen it as a last resort,as i have tried other podiatrists in the past with no real success with my long standing heel pain. When you have been in pain for several years, you kinda get desperate! Just found out from the credit card company,that it is to late to claim my money back, as it is 10 months since purchase. So now i have several pairs of orthotics which still give my feet pain. What really annoys me is why it took so long to make appointments to get them adjusted.It almost felt like delaying tactics! I only managed to get them adjusted once,then told to try that for 2 months. Then i made another appointment and then they suggested to put sorbophane heel pads underneath and try that for 2 months. As you can see the time goes by!
    Now i got a big credit card bill,skint,and still in pain. I suppose i could try and claim back from the insolvency people mentioned in earlier posts, but i dont hold out much hope of that. One last thing, would i be able to get the orthotics re adjusted and re covered by another podiatrist? I would be grateful of any help!

  34. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi cornmerchant

    youve got an off button ??

    Use it:rolleyes:

    Read the debate and understand the content then you may be more tollerant and try to help those that have been so badly treated.

    If you dont want to read or join in DONT some of us care and are perhaps more able to voice a "non private" opinion:rolleyes:

  35. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    From heelspurs.com:
    To patients of P and B
  36. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Bob
    Firstly I am very sorry you find yourself in this position, we all on this site sympathise.

    I think in the volatile legal situation you are now in with this company ( I fear,imho Mr Bailey & co will be subjected to much legal/ criminal intervention from unhappy patients and the authorities) it will be highly unlikely that any of us would get involved with adjusting/ repairing anything supplied by them for legal reasons ,sorry.

    Perhaps you should voice your concerns here www.heelspurs.com and make a joint effort for compensation.

  37. dougie gelling

    dougie gelling Welcome New Poster

  38. Wow. Never have I seen such a response from the general public on a thread here. Interesting to get an opinion from those we serve.

    It is distressing to read such stories. As one poster said, when people are in pain, they become desparate and vulnerable.

    I hope, Mr Bailey, that you are reading this. 8 week to test an adjustment then another 8 to see if some cushioning will help. This person never got a refund and thus they are a part of your 98.95% success rate.

    Does not seem very successful to me!

  39. Jeremy Long

    Jeremy Long Active Member

    All of this really churns my guts. I can never understand how certain individuals can make such "earnest" desires for helping people, when in truth they are mainly helping a population in desperate pain empty their bank accounts. To me, this is no different than a group of "foot experts" fleecing this nation's mall visitors with unwarranted promises by dispensing them highly over-priced premolded inserts. With an ever aging median population I do not believe this will be last of these stories we see reported on this (and other) site.
  40. DaVinci

    DaVinci Well-Known Member

    I too really feel those those people on the receiving end of what appears to be a shady company. They need to be held accountable. Where is the "duty-of-care" that, even though the company is out of business, from the health professionals concerned in either providing continuing care or providing a referal source for those that they owe a "duty-of-care" to. Where is the ethics and professionalism in that? From what I read above they never seem to have had that in the first place! From what I have read and seen, they were just out to make a fast buck by exploiting patients with hard sell and an overpriced product.

    I understand all the staff involved are osteopaths or chiropractors? Who regulates them in the UK? If they were podiatrists, then I assume they would be held accountable for their actions by the Health Professions Council (can someone more familiar with the UK situation confirm this?)

    I know Admin does not normally like non-health professionals posting here, but applaud him on this occasion for allowing it. Given how many have posted here, one can surely assume that this is just the "tip of the iceberg"?
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